From: owner-polcan-digest To: polcan-digest@sfu.ca Subject: polcan-digest V1 #181 Reply-To: polcan Errors-To: owner-polcan-digest Precedence: bulk polcan-digest Saturday, 3 May 1997 Volume 01 : Number 181 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Bateman" Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:49:51 MST Subject: MPs To Listmembers: A colleague the other day noted his frustration that the media refer to incumbents in the federal election campaign as "MPs". He argues that incumbents cannot be MPs because Parliament is dissolved for an election. There is therefore no Parliament of which the incumbents can be members. He accepts that this may be a conventional usage borne of laziness and convenience, but suggests that it is not technically correct. Can anyone settle the matter? Tom Bateman ***************************** Thomas M.J.Bateman Political Studies Augustana University College 4901-46 Avenue Camrose, Alberta T4V 2R3 Canada (403)679-1154 batemant@augustana.ab.ca ------------------------------ From: mamun@almaak.usc.edu (Kazi Asadul Mamun) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:03:58 -0700 Subject: Re: polcan-digest V1 #180 Hello Everyone: Till now I've "lurked" in this newsgroup, enjoying the wonderful scholarship and information that members demonstrate almost on a daily basis. My sincere commendations to Mike Howlett, who is also a good friend from UBC. Incidentally, this message is of a personal nature. I had a good friend while I was at UBC 1982-84, Deborah DeRosier, with whom I've lost contact since I moved south in 1984. If you're a member of the network, please contact me. My number is (213) 740-2534. Kazi Asad Mamun University of Southern California. ------------------------------ From: David Rovinsky Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:45:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: When do MPs stop being MPs? Thomas Bateman wrote: > He argues > that incumbents cannot be MPs because Parliament is dissolved for an > election. There is therefore no Parliament of which the incumbents > can be members. > > He accepts that this may be a conventional usage borne > of laziness and convenience, but suggests that it is not technically > correct. Can anyone settle the matter? When Parliament has been dissolved, are MP's still paid until the election--or even the return of the writs? A paycheck could imply other perks and responsibilities as well. Of course, there is no such dilemma here in the US, because the terms of Congressmen end and begin at 12 noon on the January 3rd following a Congressional election, so Congress never "dissolves" as such. The Canadian Parliament cannot meet in a "lame duck" session. David Rovinsky Department of Political Science Bloomsburg University of Pennsylvania ------------------------------ From: djohnson@sparc.uccb.ns.ca (David Johnson) Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 13:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: APPSA Conference - Proposals Note Atlantic Provinces Political Studies Association Annual Conference University College of Cape Breton Sydney, Nova Scotia October 17-19, 1997 "Reinventing Governance: Atlantic Canada in a Changing National and International Environment" This is just a reminder for all those interested in attending this conference to have paper proposals submitted asap. The new cut-off date for submissions is May 30th, 1997. Information respecting this conference was previously posted on this list. Please feel free to visit us at our website: http://ace.acadia.ca/PoliSci/appsa.htm Proposals may be submitted to: Dr. David Johnson APPSA 97 Conference Co-ordinator Department of Politics, Government and Public Administration University College of Cape Breton Sydney, Nova Scotia B1P 6L2 (902) 563-1213 fax - (902) 562-0119 e-mail djohnson@uccb.ns.ca ------------------------------ From: Gordon Barnhart Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 19:50:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: MPs I agree with your colleague. Members of Parliament (technically Members of the House of Commons) are not members because on dissolution, they cease to have the function or role as a member. Under the Parliament Act, the people who were members continue to get paid which creates continuity if the member is reelected. The pay stops on polling date if the member did not run or was defeated. New members start their pay as of polling day. I think this is correct--this is the way it works in the Sask Leg Assembly and I believe this is true for the federal house. I can see though why the media use member even if they are not members--what else would you easily call them? On the use of MP, the media are frustrating because they do not refer to Senators as MPs and yet they are Members of Parliament. Just goes to show you can't believe the media every time! Hope this helps in your discussion with your colleague. Gordon Barnhart Doctoral Candidate, University of Sask. ------------------------------ From: Kelly Hill Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:19:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs So what, then, is the status of cabinet ministers, including the Prime Minister? Is their pay during this period the full cabinet minister's salary or simply that of a "regular" backbencher? At 19:50 01/05/97 -0600, Gordon Barnhart wrote: >I agree with your colleague. Members of Parliament (technically Members of >the House of Commons) are not members because on dissolution, they cease >to have the function or role as a member. Under the Parliament Act, the >people who were members continue to get paid which creates continuity if >the member is reelected. The pay stops on polling date if the member did >not run or was defeated. New members start their pay as of polling day. I >think this is correct--this is the way it works in the Sask Leg Assembly >and I believe this is true for the federal house. I can see though why the >media use member even if they are not members--what else would you easily >call them? > On the use of MP, the media are frustrating because they do not >refer to Senators as MPs and yet they are Members of Parliament. Just goes >to show you can't believe the media every time! Hope this helps in your >discussion with your colleague. > >Gordon Barnhart >Doctoral Candidate, University of Sask. > > ------------------------------ From: Michael Howlett Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:22:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 1997 British General Election Sites Sites covering the 1997 UK General Election British [UK] General Election, 1997 http://www.keele.ac.uk/depts/po/ge97.htm British General Election 97 Coverage from The BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/election97/frameset.htm CNN - 1997 UK Elections http://www.cnn.com/uk97/ Election 97 http://www.election97.org.uk Election 1997 http://www.election.co.uk/ General Election 1997 http://www.ge97.co.uk/ General Election 97 - Special Report http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~pruffini/ge97.html General Election, The http://www.rmplc.co.uk/news/Election.html Guardian and Observer General Election Site http://election.guardian.co.uk/ Houses of Parliament http://www.parliament.uk/ ITN Election 97 http://www.itnelection.co.uk Labour Party Election Web Site http://www.labourwin97.org.uk/index.frm.html Liberal Party General Election Manifesto 1997 http://www.libparty.demon.co.uk/ge97/cover.htm Referendum Party Candidate Information http://www.referendum.org.uk/candidates/ Scotsman Election Special http://www.scotsman.com/election/ UK 97 General Election http://www.uk97.com/prom/Scotland.html UK General Election 1997 Women's Information http://www.engender.org.uk/engender/general_election_97/ UKOnline - 1997 General Election http://www.ukonline.co.uk/UKOnline/Politics/contents.html WashingtonPost.com: British Election '97 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/inatl/europe/britvote/britvote.htm __________________________________________________________ POLCAN - The Official Maillist of the Canadian Political Science Association Managed by: Michael Howlett and Laurent Dobuzinskis Department of Political Science, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, V5A 1S6 Phone (604) 291-3082 Fax (604) 291-4786 howlett@sfu.ca dobuzins@sfu.ca Visit the CPSA WWW Homepage at URL:http://www.sfu.ca/igs/CPSA.html __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Michael Howlett Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:23:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Japan Watch WWW Site Japan Watch from JIPR http://www.jipr.org Japan News and Survey Report from The Japan Institute of Policy Research - consolidates the concerns and opinions of the world and relays them to political leaders in Japan. Current features include: Analysis - Japanese Telecommunication Administration and Trade Policy Guises in the MPT. Opinion - The Rise of Consumption Taxes and Japan in the 21st Century. Interview - Initiatives Towards Resolving Global Problems. __________________________________________________________ POLCAN - The Official Maillist of the Canadian Political Science Association Managed by: Michael Howlett and Laurent Dobuzinskis Department of Political Science, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, V5A 1S6 Phone (604) 291-3082 Fax (604) 291-4786 howlett@sfu.ca dobuzins@sfu.ca Visit the CPSA WWW Homepage at URL:http://www.sfu.ca/igs/CPSA.html __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Michael Howlett Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: EU WWW Site The European Site http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/EuropeanSite Offers quick and comprehensive access to European Union servers. Covers: History, institutions, policies and databases. __________________________________________________________ POLCAN - The Official Maillist of the Canadian Political Science Association Managed by: Michael Howlett and Laurent Dobuzinskis Department of Political Science, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, V5A 1S6 Phone (604) 291-3082 Fax (604) 291-4786 howlett@sfu.ca dobuzins@sfu.ca Visit the CPSA WWW Homepage at URL:http://www.sfu.ca/igs/CPSA.html __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Michael Howlett Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: WWW Class Use - Request for Assistance Hi all, My name is Brian Werner and I have been using the internet extensively in my classes at St. John's University (NYC) for two years now. I ask all of you who use the Internet in your courses this term to help me with a project. I am writing a paper on student evaluations of communication in the on-line (cyber, remote, pick your favorite...) classroom for the APSA meetings this year. I have posted a survey at http://users.aol.com/drblw/survey.htm and would appreciate it if you would ask your students to participate. The purpose of the survey is to examine students reactions to and problems with communications on-line. The survey is anonymous and only asks identifying questions about university, instructor, class name, gender, and class standing. The return address from each submission is my own e-mail address. Obviously, please check out the survey before asking your class to participate. You can check out my on-line course at http://users.aol.com/drblw/syllabus.htm. If you wish to have your class participate, please let me know where I can access any materials you have posted concerning your class (background for the paper) and I will forward the results for your students to you by e-mail. If you have any questions please contact me at: drblw@aol.com (home e-mail until SJU fixes its new network) Dr. Brian L. Werner Department of Government and Politics St. John's University 8000 Utopia Parkway Jamaica, NY 11439 (718) 990-6161 ext 5268 __________________________________________________________ POLCAN - The Official Maillist of the Canadian Political Science Association Managed by: Michael Howlett and Laurent Dobuzinskis Department of Political Science, Simon Fraser University Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, V5A 1S6 Phone (604) 291-3082 Fax (604) 291-4786 howlett@sfu.ca dobuzins@sfu.ca Visit the CPSA WWW Homepage at URL:http://www.sfu.ca/igs/CPSA.html __________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Richard Matthews Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs The Government remains in full power and authority until the PM formally tenders his resignation to the Crown and a new PM is called upon to form a new government - all of which takes place before Parliament is again summoned. It all happened this morning in the United Kingdom. At 09:19 5/02/97 -0400, you wrote: >So what, then, is the status of cabinet ministers, including the Prime >Minister? Is their pay during this period the full cabinet minister's >salary or simply that of a "regular" backbencher? > > >At 19:50 01/05/97 -0600, Gordon Barnhart wrote: >>I agree with your colleague. Members of Parliament (technically Members of >>the House of Commons) are not members because on dissolution, they cease >>to have the function or role as a member. Under the Parliament Act, the >>people who were members continue to get paid which creates continuity if >>the member is reelected. The pay stops on polling date if the member did >>not run or was defeated. New members start their pay as of polling day. I >>think this is correct--this is the way it works in the Sask Leg Assembly >>and I believe this is true for the federal house. I can see though why the >>media use member even if they are not members--what else would you easily >>call them? >> On the use of MP, the media are frustrating because they do not >>refer to Senators as MPs and yet they are Members of Parliament. Just goes >>to show you can't believe the media every time! Hope this helps in your >>discussion with your colleague. >> >>Gordon Barnhart >>Doctoral Candidate, University of Sask. >> >> > > > ------------------------------ From: "Euan C. White" <102056.1376@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date: 02 May 97 14:47:19 EDT Subject: New Book Announcement: A Government Reinvented A GOVERNMENT REINVENTED: A Study of Alberta's Deficit Elimination Program edited by Dr. Christopher Bruce, Dr. Ronald Kneebone, and Dr. Kenneth McKenzie (all of the Dept. of Economics, University of Calgary) This volume provides an objective look at the Alberta deficit reduction experience in order to identify the most important lessons that have been learned. The editors commissioned nine individuals to conduct research on specific areas of policy effected by the Alberta deficit reduction program. The result is not simply a collection of papers from a number of authors; each paper followed a pre-set outline, and additional consistency was obtained through a conference at which all of the papers were presented and extensively critiqued. Also, each paper is followed by a critique from an academic who does research in that specific area, and is from outside Alberta. A GOVERNMENT REINVENTED 500 pp $25.95 (list) paperback available May 1997 TO ORDER CONTACT YOUR LOCAL OXFORD SALES REPRESENTATIVE, OR: OUP CANADA 70 Wynford Drive Don Mills, Ontario M3C 1J9 ph 416/441-2941 fax 416/441-0345 ------------------------------ From: "Euan C. White" <102056.1376@COMPUSERVE.COM> Date: 02 May 97 14:46:01 EDT Subject: New Book Announcement: Misconceiving Canada Misconceiving Canada: The Struggle for National Unity by Dr. Kenneth McRoberts, Dept. of Political Science, York University This book examines the relationship between Quebec and the rest of Canada, from its historical roots, the roles of the Trudeau and Mulroney governments, issues of official bilingualism, multiculturalism, the 1995 Quebec Referendum, and the current federal governments failure to deliver meaningfully on the promise made during the Referndum. The book also looks at the impact Quebec seperatism would have on the future of Canada. MISCONCEIVING CANADA 288 pp $26.95 (list) paperback available May 1997 TO ORDER, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL OXFORD SALES REPRESENTATIVE, OR: OUP Canada 70 Wynford Drive Don Mills, Ontario M3C 1J9 ph 416/441-2941 fax 416/441-0345 ------------------------------ From: John Wilson Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:13:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs I am more than a little puzzled by the suggestion that because parliament has been dissolved it does not exist. Of course it exists. It is simply not in session because an election is taking place to determine afresh the character of its composition. People can play all the games they want with these facts but the idea of parliament, if you like, is still there. Gordon Barnhart is pretty close to the truth. Section 55 (2) of the Parliament of Canada Act (as revised to 1993) provides that an MP is paid from the election day on which he or she was elected - indeed the section defines an MP in this way. Section 69 of the Act provides that an MP continues to be paid until the election day following dissolution. Obviously, therefore, if he or she is re-elected there is no break, and if not there is no overlap. At a more elementary level one could recognize that if in the election period it was necessary to contact one's MP there is very little doubt in my mind about whom one would approach. In short, in spirit as well as in fact we treat MPs as such until we have dismissed them. None of this bears at all on prime ministers or cabinet ministers. By convention, a prime minister stays in office until he or she resigns, dies, or is dismissed. Although ordinarily they will resign shortly after losing a general election they do not have to do so (remember Billy King in 1925) and unless the new House of Commons votes no confidence in their government they will stay on. For the faint of heart who in these modern times want to ignore the constitutional rules perhaps it should be said that if the prime minister had the cheek to ignore the message of a clear vote of no confidence the Governor General would dismiss the culprit. Cabinet ministers may individually (or in a wild case, collectively) resign at will, but otherwise stay in office until dismissed. All ministers, of course, again by convention, are assumed to have resigned when the PM resigns (or is otherwise removed). By modern practice most ministers are also MPs but their status as ministers has nothing to do with their being an MP. A cabinet minister who lost his or her seat in a general election would cease to draw an MP's salary but would continue to get the minister's salary until his or her status was clarified. It may be cocky of some candidates in the present election to give their occupation on the ballot as 'Member of Parliament' but we all know why they do it. It is not on that account incorrect. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Wilson Telephone: (519) 888-4567, x2108 Department of Political Science Fax: (519) 746-5622 University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 3G1 Home Telephone: (519) 725-1869 Fax: (519) 725-9480 (call E-mail: wilson@watarts.uwaterloo.ca ahead to 725-1869) ------------------------------ From: Gordon Barnhart Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 19:45:16 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: MPs In response to your question about what happens to cabinet ministers including the Prime Minister--they continue as the government until re-elected or until they resign if defeated. They continue to get their regular pay as members of the House of Commons and as cabinet ministers. Cabinet also has the power to continue governing even during the election (period of dissolution) but by practice, would likely not introduce new measures pending the verdict from the people. The cabinet though does have the power to pass orders under urgent circumstances. I believe they might use this emergency power to delay the election in some or all of the Manitoba constituencies due to the flood. As I understand it, it is up to J. P. Kingsley, Chief Electoral Officer, to make a recommendation to proceed or not--then if he recommended that the election be delayed in certain ridings, cabinet would meet (or a portion of cabinet) to ratify the Chief Electoral Officer's recommendation. Just wait, you may see cabinet in action during a period of dissolution. On the other hand, the House of Commons cannot meet during the period of dissolution. Likewise for Senators. Hope this answers your question. Gordon Barnhart University of Saskatchewan (the land where our polls close half an hour later than in BC!). ------------------------------ From: John Wilson Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 07:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs This exchange is getting out of hand. Gordon Barnhart is quite right, of course,to say that ministers continue to govern after dissolution - if they did not who, pray tell, would be running the country? - but his attempt to illustrate the point is simply mistaken. Section 9 of the Canada Elections Act gives the Chief Elecrtoral Officer all the authority he needs, without any reference to cabinet, to make adjustments in the electoral process to meet an emergency. A moment's reflection would show that this is appropriate - who wants the prime minister making decisions about how the election is run? Jean-Pierre Kingsley will decide all by himself, so to speak, what to do about postponing the election in southern Manitoba. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Wilson Telephone: (519) 888-4567, x2108 Department of Political Science Fax: (519) 746-5622 University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 3G1 Home Telephone: (519) 725-1869 Fax: (519) 725-9480 (call E-mail: wilson@watarts.uwaterloo.ca ahead to 725-1869) ------------------------------ From: Thomas Hueglin Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 15:00:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs thanks, john: following this debate i was beginning to wonder why everything in this country was more complicated and ambiguous than everywhere else; apparently, it is not. th. Dr. Thomas O. Hueglin Department of Political Science Wilfrid Laurier University Waterloo, Ontario CANADA N2L 3C5 Telephone: (519) 884-0710; ext. 3294 (Office) (519) 696-2703 (Home) Fax: (519) 746-7908 ------------------------------ From: Calvin Hanselmann Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 14:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: MPs With respect, I must disagree with John Wilson on the Manitoba flood situation. Although s. 9 of the Canada Elections Act gives general powers to the Chief Electoral Officer to adapt the provisions of the Act "to meet the exigencies of the situation," I would suggest that the specific provisions of s. 13 apply in this case: 13. Where the Chief Electoral Officer certifies that by reason of a flood, fire or other disaster it is impracticable to carry out the provisions of this Act in any electoral district where a writ has been issued ordering an election, (a) the Governor in Council may order the withdrawal of the writ; (b) a notice of the withdrawal of the writ shall be published in a special issue of the Canada Gazette by the Chief Electoral Officer; (c) a new writ ordering an election shall be issued within three months after publication of the notice of withdrawal of the writ in the Canada Gazette; and (d) a day not later than three months after the date of issue of the new writ of election shall be named in the new writ as the day fixed for the holding of the poll. R.S., c. 14 (1st Supp.), s. 6; 1980-81-82-83, c. 96, s. 2. In this regard, I side with my friend Gordon Barnhart. The word "may" in paragraph (a) indicates, to me at least, that it is up to Cabinet to decide. Calvin Hanselmann Undergraduate Department of Political Studies, University of Saskatchewan On Sat, 03 May 1997 07:55:20 -0400 (EDT) John Wilson wrote: > From: John Wilson > Date: Sat, 03 May 1997 07:55:20 -0400 (EDT) > Subject: Re: MPs > To: polcan@sfu.ca > > > This exchange is getting out of hand. Gordon Barnhart is quite right, of > course,to say that ministers continue to govern after dissolution - if > they did not who, pray tell, would be running the country? - but his > attempt to illustrate the point is simply mistaken. Section 9 of the > Canada Elections Act gives the Chief Elecrtoral Officer all the authority > he needs, without any reference to cabinet, to make adjustments in the > electoral process to meet an emergency. A moment's reflection would show > that this is appropriate - who wants the prime minister making decisions > about how the election is run? Jean-Pierre Kingsley will decide all by > himself, so to speak, what to do about postponing the election in southern > Manitoba. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > John Wilson Telephone: (519) 888-4567, x2108 > Department of Political Science Fax: (519) 746-5622 > University of Waterloo > Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 3G1 Home Telephone: (519) 725-1869 > Fax: (519) 725-9480 (call > E-mail: wilson@watarts.uwaterloo.ca ahead to 725-1869) > > > ------------------------------ From: John Wilson Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:02:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MPs I am delighted to concede that I overlooked the very clear provisions of section 13 of the Canada Elections Act. I would suggest to my friends in Saskatchewan, however, that whatever the Act may say it would be a very foolish prime minister who ignored the recommendation of the Chief Electoral Officer in such a case. Indeed, as is now known, the prime minister has said that he will accept whatever Mr. Kingsley says. That hardly sounds to me like the kind of illustration Gordon Barnhart ought to have been looking for to answer the question of who is in charge after dissolution. A much better example would be a matter of great controversy where the government and the opposition disagreed. How about Kim Campbell's decision to sign the Pearson Airport Agreements during the 1993 campaign? There was a very clear case. In Australia such a decision would not, by a very explicit convention, have been permitted. The probable truth is that the cabinet are, as Jim Mallory once put it, "the Crown's ministers. . . . For them to lay down their responsibilities . . . for two months . . . between . . . dissolution , , , and a general election, would be for them flagrantly to dishonor their oaths as privy councillors" - but they ought nonetheless to govern with some recognition that caution is required. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Wilson Telephone: (519) 888-4567, x2108 Department of Political Science Fax: (519) 746-5622 University of Waterloo Waterloo, Ontario, N2L 3G1 Home Telephone: (519) 725-1869 Fax: (519) 725-9480 (call E-mail: wilson@watarts.uwaterloo.ca ahead to 725-1869) ------------------------------ End of polcan-digest V1 #181 ****************************