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Re: faculty salaries
I'd just like to add to what Nancy said regarding a distorted comparison between Canada and the US. Apart from the fact that private schools were left out of the study, and the 8 months versus 12 months yearly salary difference, there is likely to be a fairly large number of small community colleges in the US that included in the dataset and where academic salaries presumably are very low.
Moreover, the lower spread in salaries in the US relative to Canada cannot possibly be accurate….it's another anomaly that needs to be explained and points to a systematic selection bias in the units of observation, which makes the comparison meaningless.
Finally, the following quote caught my eye:
"None of us were economists, so we didn’t really know how to make sense of the data. And the data we got was pretty bad,” Mr. Altbach said.
Cheers!
Anke
Anke Kessler
Professor of Economics
Simon Fraser University
Canadian Institute for Advanced Research (CIFAR) & CEPR
akessler@sfu.ca
+1-778-782-3443
home page: http://www.sfu.ca/~akessler/
twitter: http://twitter.com/askessler
On 2013-11-07, at 8:36 PM, Nancy Forde <nforde@sfu.ca> wrote:
> The comparison between the US and Canada caught my eye as well. If you adjust for the 8- or 9-month (US) vs. 12-month (Canada) salary, then salaries are similar. (I don't know how it is in all fields, but most research-based faculty in the sciences in the US are expected to obtain the rest of their salary through grants.) Also, the article notes that the universities included in the survey are publicly funded, which automatically removes the likes of Harvard from the data set, thus resulting in lower salaries in all scales in the US data than likely would occur if private universities were included. It is hard to say whether Canada is doing noticeably better than the US, or that we can use this as any sort of recruitment advantage, though with the state of funding in both countries, perhaps the 12-month salary does at least give us some edge.
>
> Cheers,
> Nancy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martin Hahn" <mhahn@sfu.ca>
> To: "Neil Abramson" <nabramso@sfu.ca>, "SFUFA Forum" <academic-discussion@sfu.ca>
> Sent: Thursday, 7 November, 2013 20:08:37
> Subject: Re: Fwd: faculty salaries
>
> University systems and the value society places on them vary hugely around the globe. For us, the relevant comparison class is Canada, and then the United states - since SFU competes for academics largely on the North American market. It is surprising, if true, that Canadian salaries should be higher, on average, than US ones. Not so much so for entry level ones, but but for ones at the top.
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> Still, there are rather large differences between the US and Canadian systems. One is that US academics often (perhaps usually) only get paid for 8 or 9 months a year, have the summers off, and are free to take other employment then. The other is that there are huge differences in salaries between states and between institutions. Salaries at a state college in rural Alabama are likely to be half of what they are, say, Harvard or Washington University, St. Lewis. Differences on that scale simply do not exist in Canada. So the average salary is not very informative.
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> The question of where SFU fits, and where it ought to fit, on that spectrum is a really a difficult one to answer.
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> Martin
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> On 07/11/2013 7:19 PM, Neil Abramson wrote:
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> I received this today. It seems our salaries are pretty good compared to international rates. We may be plummeting versus salaries at other Canadian universities, but there's a long way to the very bottom.
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> All the best
> Neil
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> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
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> From: Gerardo Otero < otero@sfu.ca >
> Date: 7 November, 2013 11:26:27 AM PST
> To: Brian Green < brian_green@sfu.ca >, Neil Abramson < neil_abramson@sfu.ca >
> Subject: faculty salaries
> Reply-To: Gerardo Otero < otero@sfu.ca >
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> Dear Neil and Brian:
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> As you'll see in the article linked below, Canadian faculty wages seem to be the highest in the world on a purchasing-power parity.
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> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/02/world/europe/02iht-educlede02.html
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> Thus, here's my interpretation of recent SFUFA surveys and yesterdays meeting: our members may actually be more interested in principles and values such as divesting from the oil industry and FAIRNESS in wages within Canada. That is to say, it is inaccurate to say that we are interested in salaries or money per se. What we don't like is that other people doing the same work as us are getting paid more. Perhaps it would be worth making this distinction, as evidently not many people were swayed by the trustees messenger about how costly it may be to have the option to divest from oil.
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> Great meeting yesterday, by the way!
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> Best, Gerardo
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> --
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> Gerardo Otero , Ph.D.
> Professor of Sociology
> and Associate Member of the
> School of International Studies
> Simon Fraser University
> Vancouver, BC Canada
> http://www.sfu.ca/~otero/
> Tel. +778-782-4508
>
> --
> Nancy Forde
> Associate Professor
> Department of Physics
> Simon Fraser University
> 8888 University Dr.
> Burnaby, BC V5A 1S6
> --
> nforde@sfu.ca
> 778-782-3161; 778-782-3592 (fax)
> http://www.sfu.ca/fordelab
>