as a direct recipient of it I can attest that I found it very physically intimidating
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 10:27 AM
To: Derek Bingham; Nicholas Blomley; Ronda Arab
Cc: Nilima Nigam; Ouldooz Baghban Karimi; Nancy Forde; Wendy Loken Thornton; James Fleming; Faculty Forum Mail List
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
Since not everyone was happy with brief my comment, I'll elaborate on my reasoning.
I guess (Eirikur) that I distinguish between protest behaviour which is:
(1) disrespectful
(2) physically intimidating
I don't believe (2) is justified. But on my admittedly superficial forensic analysis of the Tik Tok video, I did not see evidence of (2). I was also responding to the comments on this forum which at the time complained about (1) but not about (2).
My reaction to this episode reflects my general outlook on civil disobedience. I accept the following principle (which I did not invent),
If non-violent rule-breaking comes in response to a serious and longstanding injustice, then sanctions against the rule-breakers should be lenient.
In this case, those sanctions include both the moral opprobrium of faculty directed to the students and whatever penalties SFU may be contemplating.
I think the protestors served a useful function by calling attention to a longstanding injustice in our community. And indeed, the value of protesting injustice explains, in some peoples' view, why sanctions for civil disobedience should be tempered.
But the facts matter. I would not be sympathetic if the protests had disrupted the entire class rather than wrapping up in what... 3 minutes.
Finally, I agree that dressing up like Jan. 6th Rioters may not have been the best way to elicit sympathy for the TSSU, but I was not responding to their PR acumen.
Best,
Sam
Sam Black
Assoc. Prof. Philosophy, SFU
This note is not AI-generated.
Sent: October 18, 2023 9:21:51 AM
To: Nicholas Blomley; Ronda Arab
Cc: Nilima Nigam; Ouldooz Baghban Karimi; Sam Black; Nancy Forde; Wendy Loken Thornton; James Fleming; Faculty Forum Mail List
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
Yes, a faculty member in Science.
Regardless, the behaviour is terrible.
Derek
Derek Bingham
Professor
Department of Statistics and Actuarial Science
Simon Fraser University
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 9:09:49 AM
To: Ronda Arab
Cc: Nilima Nigam; Ouldooz Baghban Karimi; Sam Black; Nancy Forde; Wendy Loken Thornton; James Fleming; Faculty Forum Mail List
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
On Oct 17, 2023, at 6:58 PM, Ronda Arab <ronda_arab@sfu.ca> wrote:
I’m not actually expecting politeness. That behaviour went well beyond impoliteness.Ronda
Sent by magic
On Oct 17, 2023, at 10:16 PM, Nilima Nigam <nigam@math.sfu.ca> wrote:
Dear Ouldooz,certainly I've heard the sentiment - it is oppressive to expect polite behaviour from someone deprived of important necessities - expressed. Sometimes it is being expressed by a screaming toddler in the candy aisle of a supermarket. I am mostly quite sympathetic to their cause.
(I am especially grateful if they keep their clothes on.)
bestNilima
On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 5:56 PM Ouldooz Baghban Karimi <ouldooz_baghban_karimi@sfu.ca> wrote:
Dear Colleagues,
Please forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, but I am asking myself:
Isn’t expecting politeness from a person, who struggles for basics and is protesting/disrupting to show that, a mechanism of oppression?
Best,
Ouldooz
Ouldooz Baghban Karimi, PhD, PMP
Lecturer, School of Computing Science
Chair, Computing Science Diversity Committee
President, Academic Women
Simon Fraser University
SRYE 5103, 10285 University Drive, Surrey, BC, V3T 4B7
T: 778.782.7585 | M: 604.345.8442 | https://www.cs.sfu.ca/~oba2
From: Ronda Arab <ronda_arab@sfu.ca>
Date: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 at 5:41 PM
To: Sam Black <samuel_black@sfu.ca>
Cc: Nancy Forde <nforde@sfu.ca>, Wendy Loken Thornton <wthornto@sfu.ca>, James Fleming <james_fleming@sfu.ca>, Faculty Forum Mail List <academic-discussion@sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
Honestly, Sam, I have enormous sympathy for what grad students are going through right now, but I don’t see any benefit to anyone or anyone’s cause to excusing that kind of behaviour.
But keeping our heads is definitely very good advice right now.
Best,
Ronda Arab
Sent by magic
On Oct 17, 2023, at 8:48 PM, Sam Black <samuel_black@sfu.ca> wrote:
Hi All,
I guess my reaction to the disruption of lectures is that we should keep our heads during a stressful time.
Some grad students are experiencing serious financial hardship: even meeting their caloric requirements is a challenge. (Vancouver is not a cheap city.) They furthermore have no idea how and when this will end.
I don't think disrupting lectures is a great idea. But we ought to keep a sense of proportion. The stakes are very high for many of these students; for us not so much. (And they did wear clothes -- unlike some college protestors during the '60's.)
Best,
Sam
Sam Black
Assoc. Prof. Philosophy, SFU
This note is not AI-generated.
I respectfully acknowledge that SFU is on the unceded ancestral and traditional territories of the səl̓ilw̓ətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh Úxwumixw (Squamish), xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) and kʷikʷəƛ̓əm (Kwikwetlem) Nations.
From: Nancy Forde <nforde@sfu.ca>
Sent: October 17, 2023 1:11:09 PM
To: Wendy Loken Thornton; Ronda Arab; James Fleming
Cc: Faculty Forum Mail List
Subject: RE: Intimidation of faculty and students
Hi all,
I have been honouring the TSSU picket line (in spite of my many concerns for students not a direct part of this dispute), and I was angered to see their members’ actions in this shared video. This disrespectful behaviour has caused me to question my support of their picket line. I have written to the TSSU leadership to share my concerns and my view that actions such as these can lead to an erosion in support from faculty and students. If you wish to share your perspective, they can be reached at tssu@tssu.ca.
Best wishes,
Nancy
--
Nancy Forde [she/her/hers]
Professor | Department of Physics
Simon Fraser University
8888 University Dr.
Burnaby, BC V5A 1S6
--
nforde@sfu.ca | http://www.sfu.ca/fordelab
From: Wendy Loken Thornton <wthornto@sfu.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 6:11 PM
To: Ronda Arab <ronda_arab@sfu.ca>; James Fleming <james_fleming@sfu.ca>
Cc: Faculty Forum Mail List <academic-discussion@sfu.ca>
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
Here it is:
https://www.tiktok.com/@isaac.and.jessica/video/7290617289823587589
While disturbing, I think we need to figure out if this is in fact illegal. It appears through other forums that this was done in other large classrooms as well today.
***
Wendy Loken Thornton, Ph.D. R.Psych
Professor, Department of PsychologyDirector, Cognitive Aging Lab
Simon Fraser University***
The SFU Burnaby campus is located on the unceded traditional territories of the Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh, Musqueam, and Kwikwetlem Nations.
Note: My working hours and yours may differ. Please don't feel obligated to reply outside of your normal hours.
From: Ronda Arab <ronda_arab@sfu.ca>
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 6:05 PM
To: James Fleming
Cc: Faculty Forum Mail List
Subject: Re: Intimidation of faculty and students
Does someone have a link to the video?
Sent by magic
On Oct 16, 2023, at 8:28 PM, James Fleming <james_fleming@sfu.ca> wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I have just watched a very distressing (tik tok) video apparently showing a group of TSSU strikers invading a lecture hall, doing their best to disrupt the lecture, and aggressively intimidating the faculty member trying to teach his students. Perhaps others of you have seen this video or will see it; perhaps there are or will be others like it. I assume that actions of the kind shown in the video are illegal, and not only under the Labour Code. I call on TSSU to condemn and disavow these actions. Sincerely, JDF
Professor, Department of English
Simon Fraser University
Burnaby/Vancouver,
British Columbia,
Canada.
The truth is an offence, but not a sin.
-- Bob Marley
--
Nilima Nigam
Professor
Dept. of Mathematics
Simon Fraser University
