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Below the Radar Transcript

Episode 177: Rez Dog Blues & The Haiku — with William Lindsay

Speakers: Steve Tornes, Am Johal, William Lindsay

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Steve Tornes   0:03
Hello listeners! I’m Steve Tornes with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.

On this episode of Below the Radar, our host, Am Johal, talks with William Lindsay about his latest book, “Rez Dog Blues & The Haiku: A Savage Life in Bits and Pieces.” They discuss the mix of humour and horror in the book, and how it is an honest depiction of Indigenous life on reserve and then in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. This episode discusses difficult topics. You can look at the episode description for more information on the topics.

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Am Johal  0:51
Welcome to Below the Radar. Delighted that you could join us again this week with our little podcast from Simon Fraser University and we're delighted to have William Lindsay with us today. William has a long relationship with SFU in the past, but he's recently published Rez Dog Blues & The Haiku: A Savage Life in Bits and Pieces, that's come out just this year. And welcome, William, delighted to have you on Below the Radar.

William Lindsay  1:19  
Great. It's great to be here.

Am Johal  1:20
Great. William, I wonder if we can begin with you introducing yourself a little bit?

William Lindsay  1:27  
Well, certainly. I am a status Indian of Canada, Cree-Stoney is my background. My family has their roots in Alberta, around reserves around Edmonton and northern Alberta. And so, I spend a lot of time there, also Prince George. But, you know, I've lived on the west coast for probably four decades now. So, it's my home. So, although I have ancestral prairie roots my life has been with the people with the salmon out here and I've had a wonderful 25 career year career in education, post secondary education. I worked at Simon Fraser for almost 10 years, went to Concordia University in Montreal for a year, and then came home to retire and just beat the pandemic, thank goodness.

William Lindsay  2:10
And I spent the last two years writing this book. It was a tremendous project. It was life changing in many ways. It was harmful, but it was also healing as well. Be happy to talk about that. And I was also an educator, a college professor for about 10 years before I got into working for research universities and administrative roles. So, I've been a college professor teaching Indigenous Studies, I've been a Senior Director Indigenous at two major universities, and had a good role at UBC as well, previously as Associate Director, pro tem at the First Nations House of Learning. So, I've had quite a varied life, a wonderful life. But book is done, retired now and just happy to talk about it today.

Am Johal  2:57  
Great. I just finished reading the book yesterday, William, and it's, I bust my gut laughing at times, it's really intense at times, it's really raw with the with the language, certainly some of the language I remember hearing in the 70s and 80s. And by in the contemporary times, it might seem out of date for some people, but those are words that we all remember from that era. And there's a lot of emotions, that it that it hits on, you know, everything from a road trip. The humor in the book certainly comes true, but also the emotional honesty and intensity and the kind of reality of Indigenous life on the reserve.

And so, I wonder if you can begin with talking a little bit about where the book project began for you, you know, as someone who had been a senior administrator at universities, you know, but none of us got into universities to be you know, mainstream University bureaucrats. We both come from the community side of things and were you always a writer? Did you always have a book inside you and how did this project begin for you?

William Lindsay  4:04
Yes, it's my second book, actually. I published a book in 2002. It was in Korea for Unibooks Inc. and it was used to teach English as a second language. It was kind of a one up project, but it was very exciting to do. I have been a published writer since I've had about half a dozen different academic papers and book reviews that have been published. Probably half a dozen newspaper, travel essays in the Sun and in the Province here in British Columbia. A host of other things, op eds. Just I just kept writing through the years and I was also the editor and publisher of some inter university documents, the Longhouse News at UBC, the SFU news Aboriginal addition, the annual reports I used to have to write up based on this strategic plan, which I also wrote. So, I had lots of practice writing through the years.

William Lindsay  4:50  
This book, it flourished as it had its germination about a quarter century ago when I started teaching. And I worked with Marilyn Dumont, who is a famous Métis poet and writer at here in Vancouver. And she showed me her book and I thought, I want to do a book like that. But it took 25 years of experience and, and further thinking about it. And through the years, I just kept adding notes on to sheets of paper about things I wanted to put in the book when I when I was ready to write it. And when I returned back from Montreal, two and a half years ago, wonderful experience in that city, which I write about in the book, I came home and I was actually thinking of applying for another position, but ended up deciding to just write the book and then probably retire. And that's what I did. So, it was kind of a 25-year project. But it was just the circumstances of the last couple of years during a pandemic, and having time and, and just getting down and just doing it.=

William Lindsay  5:46
And the book took 50 drafts, you can imagine doing a paper, 2,000-word paper in university, you might do read three or four drafts. Well, imagine doing a 93,000-word book, and doing 50 drafts of it. That's how much effort went into it. And I'm proud of that. I don't think you'll find a typo in there. I've been rereading it again, and I haven't found one. So, it's good writing, I will admit that. I think people would have a reason to perhaps get upset about or criticize some of the language that's used, some of the terminology, some of the experiences I write about, all based on truth, by the way. There's not one thing in this book that's not based on truth. People that did live and see and experience these things. Yeah, so there it is, you know, it's been a long journey. And I'm glad I'm here now and just doing the publicity part now and I can now truly retire.

Am Johal  6:36  
The book is called a novel on the cover, but the specificity of the stories that, it certainly evokes a kind of autobiographical aspect to it. And I wonder how you can speak to kind of the framing of the book itself. It is a novel, but clearly, there's autobiographical aspects of it, that you're trying to bring into this form as part of the storytelling of the work.

William Lindsay  7:04  
Totally, everything that was in the book was either seen by my eyes, or experienced by myself or my family, or is a firsthand account that, you know, proof, factual, so all of these things are all based on truth, per se. But the names have all been changed. There's been a little bit of, you know, artistic license done in expanding on, fictionally, on some of the experiences, which are based on truth. So, as I say, in the introduction, I call it a Bildungsroman Roman à clef. Roman à clef, meaning it's like a like an autobiography, but you change the names, so you don't get into trouble. And Bildungsroman is coming of age. So, it is truly a coming-of-age tale of an Indigenous youth in the late 60s, and in 70s, in the 70s. And growing up in this in this terrible environment at times, but also a very loving and learning environment as well.

William Lindsay  8:01  
You know, and that's something that I've heard about from different educators who have commented to me about the book so far, is that, you know, it's a surprise to them to find out that a rez dog, as I call the characters from the reserve in the book, hence the title Rez Dog Blues. It’s been quite a journey there, my friend. And, you know, I call it a searing tale. It's hard for people to read in certain parts, especially up front. But, you know, I, as some of the people I've heard from about the books, so far have said, you know, just push through the push through those odd chapters that are tough to read, but based on truth, because they're sure a lot of love in this book, and a lot of good lessons for life, for recovery, for education, for teachers, for institutions, and all for today's world, even though this book is based on events that took place over 40 years ago now.

Am Johal  8:48
One of the interesting aspects as well, this is clearly an Indigenous story from the ground and at the same time, you're splicing in the music of the era, punk rock music, social justice music, you've got film references, you've got historical literary references, you're quoting Dante and Shakespeare. And I think it also speaks to the complexity of Indigenous identity in a colonized place like Canada, that these multiple references and experiences are being brought in. Things aren't, you know, unilingual or one dimensional, but that there is this sort of bringing together of these different stories and experiences and also turning these things on their head, to make them mean something else as well. And I'm wondering if you can speak to these references that you make, because clearly you're a lover of music, you love these films as well. But you have particularly the Indigenous experience, again, turns these things on through their head in terms of what they might mean.

William Lindsay  9:48
That's something I've heard too from some scholars out there who are reading the book or have finished it. And they say, it's a shock to them that somebody from the reserve could be presented as this knowledgeable. But that's how we are. I know, because I've worked on the Downtown Eastside, with programs through SFU, and through UBC. And I found there, people from the street had great, great, great intelligence, they were well read, they could express themselves well, and they could challenge you as intelligently as anybody in any university classroom I've ever been. And so, I know that there's, you know, there's amongst Indigenous people, there are very talented and hardworking people. But we're quiet too. You know, we're a little quiet about that sometimes and we need to be perhaps a little louder about that.

William Lindsay  10:34
But you said the music and the films, absolutely. Like, these are things that saved my life growing up, I talked about the importance of films and just like, they're like literature to me, there's lessons for life in movies. And some of these movies, I quote two in particular, The Warriors from 1979, and Saturday Night Fever from 1977. These were landmark films in my life, because I was living at the time, like the characters in those films, and, you know, was looking for a way out. And so now I can look back and gauge my progress in life since through the lenses of those films in those times. You know, because we were living that way, then and now. And now we're not. So, it's interesting to look back now at those two films and others.

William Lindsay  11:17
But the music as well, like, I grew up with punk music. And the love for that is, is stressed throughout this book. I made sure to follow copyright laws and not use any song lyrics at all in this book. I did my research about that, and even approached Simon Fraser University's Ethics Office to ask about using song lyrics and it says no, don't, it's okay to use album titles and song titles, which I do throughout the book. And I find that interesting, because as you're reading each of these chapters, there is often a song, or an album that's alluded to, or sometimes many in different chapters. And, you know, it stays with you, because you think about the story. You think about the poetry, but you also think about the music. And so, it's just that kind of a book.

William Lindsay  11:58
I don't think it's a book you can rush through. The chapters are short. They're all short, shorter than normal books. And there's reasons for that. And one of the reasons is it allows you to, one or two or three chapters at a time, soak in what's there, appreciate the music references that are mentioned there. And appreciate the original haiku poetry, which I love as well, which is found in every chapter in the book as well. All of those things, it just, it was designed to make it a sort of multi-nuanced, philosophical project that would appeal to people across the board to learn a true story about Indigenous people. And I guarantee you that unlike a lot of other books out there about these issues, , pardon the expression, but there were no white hands editing this book. So, this is a true Indigenous First Nations story told, unfiltered, and it's tough to read at times, but it's also a very uplifting book, especially at the end. And I won't ruin the ending unless you're gonna ask a question about it. But, you know, I've heard from a couple of important high-level scholars that have said, you know, they really appreciated the positiveness in the book, but also how it ended as well. It just ends in a place where, you know, there's a future involved. Yeah.

Am Johal  13:17  
Yeah, and I'm wondering, when you thought about the narrative of the book, because you're trying to pull on so many threads and kind of chart your own path in terms of what novel might look like, who were some of your writing influences, you know, you sort of mentioned, you know, Jack Kerouac, On The Road, and then you kind of flip it on its head and be like, we've done way more than that. And some of these classics that, you know, have a certain place in a traditional Western academic canon, you've sort of carved your own path here. But I'm wondering, in writing your own book, or the people that you've read that you found, like, they could really carry a narrative or that spoke to you in a particular way that you think influenced how the book was written in some way or you.

William Lindsay  14:03
Yeah, there's many that come to mind. But a couple of examples are Sherman Alexie, from the United States. He's a well-known writer. And he doesn't hold back either. You know, his writings are some amongst the most banned books in institutions and in schools. So, he doesn't hold back either. And so, he was kind of a role model for me to talk about these issues, honestly, without holding back. So, Sherman Alexie, probably poet, Marilyn Dumont, who works at UofA right now. Her books of poetry influenced me to include poetry in my own book. So that comes directly from her.

William Lindsay  14:34  
And I loved literature of the world. I enjoyed reading Western literature and also Eastern literature and Eastern forms of art, like Haiku, I've enjoyed all of those things. You know, so I mentioned in my acknowledgments page, many of these, many of these famous people. I mentioned, Chief Dan George, as a particularly important influence, I mentioned him throughout the book. But people like Homer, Matsuo Bashō, Emily Dickinson, Jack Kerouac, Dante Alighieri, John Lennon, Thomas Hobbes. You know, these are some, you know, famous writers and authors and artists whose work I came across through the years, and really enjoyed. Even like Franz Fanon, Walt Whitman, Winston Churchill, George Orwell, Maya Angelou, these are all influences that have influenced how I put this book together. And I give them acknowledgments, yeah, those are just some of my influences.

Am Johal  15:25
Yeah. So, one of the things that I think really carries the narrative is the humor in the book. Now I know you from before, William, I know you to crack a joke or two, and you have some great humor, but I was busting my gut, laughing throughout the book, and it helped carry me through the more serious and intense parts of the book, and wondering, you know, the role humor plays in your own life, but also in the way that you worked it into the narrative, why that was that such an important part of the structure of the book. To me, it was like something that was really, it was a way to carry it carry it carries all throughout the book. And so, it's something you just have a way of dropping things down out of the blue that just like it comes out of nowhere, and just realized you got hit with a William Lindsay zinger.

William Lindsay  16:11
Yes, humor is something that's not, you know, specific to the Indigenous world, but it's something that's always been there for me. And as I say, in the book, when we joke and tease you, and we do those kinds of humorous things around you, it means that we've accepted you. Teasing means acceptance in our world. But, you know, the influence of trickster, he's a humorous, you know, supernatural figure. I guess, I'll just say this. One of my favorite chapters in the book has to do with suicide, it's called Suicide Solution. And even though it's probably be the most difficult topic to discuss, I take it on, but I turn it on its head and make it probably one of the funniest chapters in the whole book. And it ends off beautifully. And hopefully. So, here's this dark, darkest thing you can possibly talk about. And I turned it on its head and say, yes, I tried these different things, but I survived. Here I am. Here's who I have to thank for that. And there's humor throughout that chapter.

William Lindsay  17:07
Yeah, you'd have to read it to truly get the numerous humorous references therein, but joking has always been a part of things. I used to do a joke of the day and all of the offices where I was, you know, the supervisor and the boss. And it just does, it just made the office environment like a family. And puts everybody at ease. You know, even at these fancy dancy university dinners we used to go to, sitting at a table with important people me and Gary George or Ron Johnston from the Office for Aboriginal Peoples, we'd be sitting there starting to joke and, and pretty soon we had the whole table joking and talking and laughing, you know. So, that's how it is our world and, and that that is expressed throughout this book, from start to finish for sure.

William Lindsay  17:49
Amidst the horror, there's a lot of horror in this book. I can't, I can't hide that. You know, there's a couple of chapters about sexual abuse and horseshit that, you know, it's hard to talk about even but, I got a written out. And, you know, I paid a price for it. I'm sure you read in my introduction, that, you know, I suffered a bit of a breakdown last year when, over about a year, because of the book, the contents in it, the childhood trauma, that was, the things that I'd forgotten for decades, suddenly, were there in my face again. And, you know, I had a bit of a breakdown, but, you know, I recovered from that thing, thank goodness. But, you know, because of this work and what it touches on, I've seen a part of myself, no man should ever see. And, you know, I've never gone through something like that. So, it's a book that took a little bit of my Indigenous soul. And I've been telling people that and once they read the book, they can see why, because there's humor, but there's horror as well. So, it all balances out balances out in the end.

Am Johal  18:45  
William, I'm wondering if you'd be willing to read a page from the book, a selection, whichever one you you'd like for a moment?

William Lindsay  18:52  
Well, sure, absolutely. I'll go to a chapter dealing with our road trip. The centerpiece of the tale is a Homer like Odyssey where four of us traveled throughout the United States and to Montréal, and then come back across Canada. It's like an eight-month long journey and adventure, all based on truth again. And that's the heart of the book. And everything else is built around that. So, I'll just turn to 176, here. So, Arches & Mounds is chapter 40. We're in the midst of our road trip. We're hitting St. Louis, and outside of St. Louis, which isn't far from Memphis, which I also talked about, and Graceland and Elvis, who is important in Indian country as well. But here we are in St. Louis. And we're gonna go to Cahokia, a very famous archaeological site just to the north of St. Louis. So, Arches & Mounds, and I begin a short haiku.

William Lindsay  19:48
An arch and a mound.

If past is prologue, one day, 

We shall build again.

St. Louis, Missouri. The Gateway City. The Gateway to the West. Shit to that. They built a big motherfucking Arch next to the Mississippi River which flows through the city to commemorate the 'settlement' of the American West, lands taken by force or fraud from the Indians who had lived there for millennia. That was enough to turn us Indians off this town. "I'm at the corner of 4th Street and Shithole Avenue!" yelled Luke with the Arch in the background. We scored some hash oil and got the hell out of there. We wanted to see Cahokia.

William Lindsay  20:23
One good thing about St. Loo was the music. A town that produced Miles Davis and Chuck Berry couldn't be all bad. I certainly love the prominence of the musical artform called 'the blues'. It's in their bones. And you have Robert Johnson and Howlin' Wolf from Uncle Jesse's collection. And inspired Dylan (who was one of our mates on the trip) took the time to quickly learn a few blues standards. It was fun watching him slowly figure it out, especially the guitar slide which he had shoplifted in town, learning from a sheet music book, which he had surprisingly paid for. "Call me Mississippi D," he said when he finally got it. It appeared to us that the Negro pioneers in this biz were speaking to Indian hearts, too. For the songs of the plantation resonated in the reservation experience. The Rez Dog Blues. Sounds about right.

William Lindsay  21:08  
And then I go on to describe our visit to Cahokia. There's some music in there, some Bob Marley, very appropriate. It's a wonderful place. I've been here, Cahokia. I'd recommend any Indigenous person or ally go visit it because it'll make you have great pride in the Indigenous peoples in that part of the world. So just a little introduction there and you know, I just love reading parts of the book here and there and, you know, I, maybe I'll just mention one more thing here. I quote Maya Angelou a few times. Very important writer. So, near the end of the book, chapter 58, and titled "Je n'ai pas de regrets ...", which in French means, I have no regrets. My haiku begins, it says:

Hearts do heal in time.

Stand and flourish, I intend.

Caged birds, free. Dreams, too.

William Lindsay  21:53  
And then I begin by saying:

Through the sweetness and shadow of being, through life's triumphs and tragedies, in all its adversities and successes, we keep going, because we have to. Maya Angelou was right, I now know why the caged bird sings.

William Lindsay  22:07  
So, that's just an introduction to one of the chapters where I go on to talk about, hey, I'm ready to take on life now. You know, I've emerged from the horror. And here I am, ending the book at 20 years old, ready to go on and, and take on life. And, and that's how I begin one of the concluding chapters. I give Maya Angelou a lot of credit. She's one of my influences. Was that good enough to read?

Am Johal  22:29
Absolutely, absolutely. Thank you so much.

William Lindsay  22:32  
Just a little, just a little taste.

Am Johal  22:34  
Yeah. And, in writing the book. And we were talking before we started the interview, but just around, you know, I think your hope that this will be taken up at universities and other places in terms of its reception. And I'm wondering if you can sort of speak to, who the book is written to, or who the book is written for.

William Lindsay  22:53
It's really written for everybody, like a non-Indigenous people can get a really true story about what it was really like growing up in the 60s, and 70s. This is what it was like, no holds barred. And you can imagine emerging from that, and, you know, what do you do with your life? You know, I was fortunate enough to realize at 20 years old that I needed to change my life. And so, I did. And so, this book is designed to get non-Indigenous people to get to know our world better, especially in an age of reconciliation right now, you know, how can you reconcile with something if you're not getting the full truth about it, you know.

William Lindsay  23:27  
Well, that's another thing, the discovery of those residential school, gravesites last year, those mass graves, I was in the midst of this book when that when that was happening, and holy crap. That was part of the reason why I had a bit of a breakdown there and I give Carey Price of Les Canadiens de Montréal credit, because he stepped forward himself last year and said, I'm suffering and I need some time to recover. And I can relate exactly to that. Because at the time, I know exactly how he felt and what I was going through. And so, I really, really respect Carey Price for that.

William Lindsay  23:56  
But this book is for Indigenous people as well, because Indigenous people, as I described in the book, we are not a monolithic entity, as Indigenous people. There are different segments to our society, and even different segments within those segments. So, it's a very complex society that we're a part of, the Indigenous people, and this book goes to great lengths to differentiate between these different groups and some of the dynamics and jealousies and controversies and conflicts and also getting along that happens between these groups. I bring that up in the book as well.

William Lindsay  24:32  
But it's a book of healing. There are certain parts of this book that I still go back to, it's as I said, it hurt me writing it, but now it's helping me to heal. So, I'm hoping a lot of our Indigenous people, and youth especially, will look at the parts in the book where I talk about goal setting, how to set goals, how to reach your goals, things that you can enjoy in life that can help you to enjoy life and keep you alive and looking forward. All of those things are in the book. So, it can, it's a book for Indigenous people as well. 

William Lindsay  25:01  
But I don't speak down to my audience, as you know, yeah, I use a lot of intelligent comments and quotes. And I give acknowledgements to others where I, you know, borrow different parts of things that they said, and it's in the book and, you know, so I don't talk down to my audience. So, I'm hoping that people, Indigenous people and non-Indigenous, will look at this and think, "Well, here's an example of the kind of person that we didn't know about, that there could be someone who comes from the reserve, who grew up around the Downtown Eastside." And downtowns around Calgary, Edmonton, Prince George, places like that. "And, boy, this guy can write, you know, and he has perhaps some talent there." And, you know, that's something that I would like non-Indigenous society to get more used to, is that we're as great writers as anybody else. And I know from personal experience, we're as smart and intelligent as anybody else. We can even express ourselves better. And that's what I'm hoping this book does is to get people to sort of think about things in that light that Indigenous people have a lot to contribute to literature, to this country, to the arts. Me, I'm a writer and I play guitar. That's my art. But there's poets out there, there's performance artists, there's actors, actresses, directors, Indigenous people that are making their marks, I hope people are able to think of Indigenous people in a much more positive light through a few experiences like these books and the works that others do.

Am Johal  26:27  
There's a part in the book, William where you're on the road trip and think it's somebody's older brother, but you started talking about Red Power and AIM and, and all of these things. And so, you have this sort of process of politicization that's happening through the road trip as you're visiting places, and I found that really poignant. William, wondering if you'd like to add anything about the book that we haven't had a chance to speak about yet.

William Lindsay  26:52
Oh boy, I self published a book. And the reason I did that is, I figured that mainstream publishers wouldn't let me get away with the languages and the experiences that I described in the book. And I'm glad I did it this way, I decided to do it in the Fall, because as the book was being completed, I was still waiting to hear back from two publishers that I submitted the book to, where it was okay to do so simultaneously. And I was just waiting on these guys. And I finally decided, well, why don't I just self publish it myself, because I have confidence in the book, I have confidence in the writing. I would challenge anybody to find one typo in this book. That comes from a lot of writing and experience, of course, as an educator, and administrator through the years, but I self published and I don't regret it. The reviews I'm getting so far up on Amazon and hearing from colleagues who are currently reading it are excellent. And they find it a very intelligent book. So, as I say, I don't speak down to my audience. And this is the kind of book, I'd recommend for anybody, for all kinds of reasons. And as I say, it's been a wonderful journey.

William Lindsay  27:59
And I noticed since I decided to self publish, all of these doors have just opened. And so, I view it as the wave of the future. Because if you're if you're a good writer, because if there's typos in a book, people just they're not interested in it. So, you got to have a typo free book, really well written, a great story, great characters, a great conclusion, a good introduction, honest, emotion and power. That's what I found I was able to do with this book because I decided to self publish. And so, I would encourage anybody to do that. For me, with respect to the publishing business, they hold all the cards, you know, they expect you to wait for them and it can be a year or two years, they don't get back to you, you question them, "Hey, how's it going with my," you know, and they don't get back to you and, and then once they pay you the upfront fee for the book, it's theirs to do what they want with, they can edit it, they can change the title, they can take chapters out, they can change the wording, the language.

William Lindsay  28:52  
So, I decided no, that this book is too important to do that. During a time of reconciliation, and during a time when residential schools are, they're finding mass graves at every bloody school now, it's time for a book of honesty and truth. And that's what this book is so, I'm very proud of it. As I said, some of the topics and the language, it's an adult book for sure. But I don't think anybody could criticize the writing. 

William Lindsay  29:16
If you have confidence in your writing, you can self publish, and it can be successful, you just have to follow up and do the work yourself, publicizing it. And doing what we're doing today, you know. I have a book review coming up in the Vancouver Sun, end of April, about the book, because I reached out to them, and he read it and liked it and wants to write about it. It's in three libraries now. I hope to do an official book launch now that the pandemic is over in another month or two. It's in the hands of influential people who are considering using it in their classrooms right now. I really hope they do. By classrooms. I mean, post secondary is not a book for high school, unless you're like, you know, in a really, I give that caveat and warning up front, it’s not a book for kids. But still, it's based on truth based, it's a powerful book. It's an emotional book. And I know people who read it will like it, because everybody, to a man and to a woman who's read it so far, has told me they really liked the book, it's something different. It's something they actually have never, I've had this comment twice, it’s like something they've never read before. And that's because of the poetry, the prose, the music references throughout, just the honesty of it. Like who the heck writes about some of these things. Like there's really some tales of horror and tales of hope in here, you know, and I don't hold back. But as I say, it's all based on truth.

Am Johal  30:32  
William, thank you so much for sharing this wonderful story. Wonderful book that I just finished, yesterday. Has been so wonderful to hear you talk about it. So thank you so much for joining us on Below the Radar.

William Lindsay  30:47  
Hiy hiy, as we say in my language. And I really thank you. It's been an honor to do this today. You know, I worked at Simon Fraser for 10 years and it's nice to be touching back base a little bit here. You know, and as I say, I'm retired now and the book has opened up a few options for the next year or two and and then it'll ease into kind of a more permanent retirement after that, but I've been working since I was 15 and yeah so it's time for me to go to go to pasture so to speak, so, but thanks for this today. It's been really an honor to talk to you.

Am Johal  31:12
Thank you so much, William.

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Steve Tornes 31:17
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU’s Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our conversation with William Lindsay! Head to the show notes to learn more about the resources mentioned in the show. We release episodes every Tuesday, so make sure to subscribe to Below the Radar on your podcasting app of choice to make sure you never miss an episode. Thanks again for tuning in!

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Transcript auto-generated by Otter.ai and edited by the Below the Radar team.
June 21, 2022
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