Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 213: Building Bridges, From Vancouver to Rwanda — with Lama Mugabo
Speakers: Gabriel Alegbeleye, Am Johal, Lama Mugabo
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Gabriel Alegbeleye 0:02
Hello listeners! I'm Gabrielle with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. On this episode of Below the Radar, our host Am Johal is joined by Lama Mugabo, founding director of Building Bridges with Rwanda, a campaign manager with the BC Poverty Reduction Coalition, and a member of the Hogan's Alley Working Group. Together, they discuss local training and advocacy programs for people with lived experience of homelessness and other marginalizing barriers, Hogan's Alley Society's advocacy in Vancouver's historically Black neighborhood, and Lama's capacity building and educational work in Rwanda. Enjoy the Episode!
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Am Johal 0:57
Hello, welcome to Below the Radar. Delighted that you could join us again, this week. We have a special guest, Lama Mugabo, with us today. Welcome, Lama.
Lama Mugabo 1:07
Thank you, Am.
Am Johal 1:09
Lama, I'm wondering if we can begin with you introducing yourself a little bit.
Lama Mugabo 1:13
Yes, I'm a community planner. I wear two hats: I work globally and locally. Globally, I founded an organization called Building Bridges with Rwanda. So, my organization supports sustainable development projects in Rwanda. And locally, I work for BC Poverty Reduction Coalition as a Community Action Network campaign manager, and we're based here at 312. But I'm also doing some work with Simon Fraser University where I'll be teaching a course in spring 2023, looking at Rwanda's transformation from a failed state in 1994, to a modern state today. Yeah, so I'm doing both global and local.
Am Johal 2:04
Yeah, great. Lama, let's start with the BC Poverty Reduction Coalition. It's been doing a lot of work intervening in policy debates, carrying out its own research, and also community organizing, and capacity building. I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit to the types of projects that you're taking on right now.
Lama Mugabo 2:26
So, CAN—Community Action Network—is a leadership training program we have for people who are living in poverty, or who have lived experience in poverty. And we give them a seven week course, where they learn how to become an advocate, how to put forward their issues and, and work on committees. In New Westminster, the municipality embraced us and brought our training in council chambers. So we run those trainings there. People graduate, they serve on committees. What I like about what New Westminster is doing, is that they bring in people with lived experience, not as an afterthought, but as they're making their policies. So they're working on homelessness issues, on housing issues, and, you know, sanctuary city—New Westminster is a sanctuary city. So those, those types of interventions. We are also taking CAN to Kelowna next week. There we'll be running five, five workshops, again, training people to become advocates to make the changes they see fit.
Am Johal 3:45
Now, in terms of policy areas that the Poverty Reduction Coalition has gotten involved in over the years, I'm wondering if you can sort of speak to, sort of, some major areas that is your focus.
Lama Mugabo 4:03
One of the projects that we did, which was really successful, was to advocate on behalf of low income folks [for] access to transit. We know that when you have limited income, at the end of the month, you have to balance your budget, and you can imagine some parents have to choose food over transit. And so we find this is inhumane, we find that people on low income should get a reduced bus pass, that looks exactly the same as an ordinary one, because we don't want to colour code them, so when you bring out your card, people go, "Oh my God, you're on welfare." And so we want to be fair, we want to be humane. So yes, transit, transit justice, All on Board, we called the campaign. So we've been working on, on housing issues in New West, and it's going very well.
Am Johal 5:04
Great. And now, Lama I know, you've been doing a lot of work in the Downtown Eastside over the years, Carnegie Community Action Project and others, but also Hogan's Alley, of course, as well and wondering if you can speak a little bit to the work that you've done organizing within the Downtown Eastside community.
Lama Mugabo 5:25
So when I came back from Rwanda in 2016, after serving there for seven years, I came back and I was looking for something to do and I came across Carnegie Community Action Project, which is a community based organization that was fighting for—to end gentrification and really help people stay in this low income community. Because basically what gentrification has been doing is to displace low income folks out of here—because of flipping what used to be affordable housing to something like $1,500 a month when welfare is only $700. So, really inhumane.
Lama Mugabo 6:05
So, and then I came, I joined Hogan's Alley Working Group. As most of you know, there used to be a Black community here called Hogan's Alley. It was located in Strathcona, around Main, Union, Gore and Prior. But Hogan's Alley ran from Gore to Jackson where there was a church with known names like Nora Hendrix, Jimi Hendrix’s grandmother, who played a major role as a community builder. She helped found a chapel, Fountain Chapel, a church that the community owned. But also she cooked at her rice, chicken and steak house and was also a choir singer. So Hogan's Alley is an important story that most people don't know about.
Lama Mugabo 7:06
This community thrived between 1919 to 1972 when the city brought its bulldozers to build Georgia and Dunsmuir viaducts. So those viaducts, we consider them monuments of our displacement. Luckily, in 2016 City Council had a public hearing where they announced that these viaducts will be taken down and black people were present to remind Vancouverites that there used to be a Black community here, and they would like to bring it back. And to the city's credit, they worked with us, Hogan's Alley Working Group, for two years. And we put together a proposal which was approved in 2018.
Lama Mugabo 7:57
And so the revitalization of Hogan's Alley is part of the Northeast False Creek Area Plan. And we're very delighted to announce that recently, the City of Vancouver has signed a memorandum of understanding with Hogan's Alley Society to give back this land. So we hope to use a community land trust, to make sure that what amenities we put there, people thrive. We want businesses, we want housing, we want a cultural center, we want a garden and a daycare. So this is an exciting time for Vancouver. I think, once the Saint Paul Hospital moves there, they remove the viaducts, then we begin the major job of building the community brick by brick.
Am Johal 8:52
That sounds really exciting. And what a testament to the organizing that the group has been doing. Wondering if you have a sense of the timeline of what the city is planning around the viaducts coming down.
Lama Mugabo 9:09
We know it's going to take more than $300 million. We also know it's going to take at least five years. So really, it's a long term—it's a long term plan. And we're really excited about black youth who are going to take on this work to build a community going forward.
Am Johal 9:34
Great. Lama I also want to ask you about your history in the Downtown Eastside, it actually goes back a long ways. You used to—did you work as an apartment manager, if, if I remember the story, around Expo 86?
Lama Mugabo 9:49
Yes, correct. Back in the day, a friend of mine owned a cleaning business. So we'd go into these buildings once they complete—renovated, and we'd clean them up before tenants moved in. So we got a contract at the corner of Main and Hastings, the Ford Building. And the building was owned by affordable housing at the time. They completely renovated the inside and exterior, as you can see, it has maintained its character. And after we finished the job there the manager called me in and she said well, we have a position here for manager. The person who had been hired relapsed into drinking and so they needed someone to fill the position. And I took—I took the position.
Lama Mugabo 10:41
Now, it was an amazing place. First of all, it was, it had an amazing view at the top. You could see the whole Vancouver [from] the roof. You could see the mountains, South Vancouver and so on. But also it was an opportunity to provide housing for low income people who did not have homes. Now, remember, this is in '86. The housing crisis was nowhere near what we see today. And so I worked there for a good two years during Expo 86. And, you know, I got to know the people, the community. And so later when, when I came back, the community had completely changed, though mind you housing was really insane. Homelessness and tent city, the whole works. So yes, I've seen this community change over the years. And I'm really proud to be part of this community.
Am Johal 11:48
So you've been doing work for a long time in Rwanda over the years. And I'm wondering if you can speak a little bit to the work that you're doing there now.
Lama Mugabo 12:01
Basically, I came here as a political refugee from Burundi, I was a Rwandan living in Burundi. [I] went to Pearson College, amazing two year transformation, transformed my life. So, United World College, and what I liked about that school was they—they taught us how to give back to the community. So I was involved in social work, social service, and we will go into the city, work with kids at the Y[MCA], and work with seniors in group homes. That really resonated with me and prepared me to a career in international development.
Lama Mugabo 12:43
Fast forward, 1994 the genocide in Rwanda happens. And of course, I'm devastated. And then 2004, I was working at Liu Institute for Global Issues at UBC, where we did a national campaign to raise awareness of what happened in Rwanda, and what Rwandans were doing to rebuild the society. And throughout these, this campaign, Canadians said to us, “We are sorry, our country looked the other way, and a million people were, lives were lost. What can we do as private citizens to help you rebuild your society?” So I took that to be a call to action and started Building Bridges with Rwanda, as a platform that will give opportunity for Canadians who wanted to travel to Rwanda, learn the history, learn the culture, acquaint themselves with the development story of Rwanda, and then come back to tell what they saw. And I went to Rwanda from 2008 to 2015. And there we worked with, in a community, rural area, where we built a center of innovation. We brought more than 600 volunteers to Rwanda from eight different countries, we provided scholarships to Rwandan students and, and also put money in people's pocket because these tourists will bring, will visit the country and leave money in the country. So that was really great.
Lama Mugabo 14:17
So now that I'm here, we recalibrated BBR. It's established in BC, and we'll be taking people to Rwanda to experience Rwanda's transformation. In 2019 I joined hands—Building Bridges with Rwanda joined hands with Hogan's Alley Society and Simon Fraser University, we launched what we call, Remember Rwanda 25 Year Legacy Project. And so under RR25, we plan to take people to Rwanda every summer to visit key development projects, learn how Rwanda transformed from a failed state in '94 to what is a modern state today. And also, we want to do a conference here that will get people to talk. Not only present papers, but do collaborative work, and, and give something back to Rwanda
Am Johal 15:17
In terms of where your work started, initially there, to what you're working on now, with Rwanda, I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how that shifted and changed over time. And, and, you know, what are the particular—in as much as Rwanda can now be viewed as a success story, a number of indicators and factors—what are still some of the challenges that need to be worked through?
Lama Mugabo 15:44
You're right, Rwanda has really made a remarkable transformation. And we give thanks to the wisdom of, of Rwandans who are able to tap into the traditional knowledge of homegrown solutions. And this is what happened. So, 1994, Rwandans liberate their country. It wasn't the US, it wasn't France, Rwandans liberated Rwanda. So that gave us ownership, number one. Number two, when we came back, my mother went to claim her land. And the land officer said, "Ma'am, do you have any children?"—my father's passed. "Do you have any children?" "Yes, I have three daughters." "Do you have a son?" "Yes I do?" "Well, go bring the son." [She] said, "My son doesn't live here." "Too bad. You have to wait until he comes."
Lama Mugabo 16:40
Can you believe that? Women fought to liberate this country, and now they've been told that they're, they don't count. So they push back. And to Rwanda's credit, they incorporate, they change the constitution that made not only women equal to men, but they also did something remarkable. Because Rwanda, was imbalanced, they made sure that 30% went straight to women, 30% to youth, and 30% to people with disability. Today, Rwanda is number one leader in the world in terms of female representation in parliament. So we still have things to work through. Imagine, in nine—in 2000, we had an ambitious program of Vision 2020, where we wanted to lift the country from a highly indebted nation to a middle income economy. And we use homegrown solutions like Umuganda, where every Saturday, people get together to clean the environment, get to know each other, talk about, you know, issues that affect them. We have universal health care, everybody has health care. Education. And also, for me, Rwandans have been working through things like equality, you know, young people, young men had a challenge accepting equality, but now they're really beginning to see how it's a win-win for everyone. So the challenges of really lifting people out of poverty takes a lot of work. But also imagine, Rwanda has neighbors. So when Rwanda rises, Burundi is looking, saying, "You make us look bad." And Congo is doing the same thing. So it's, that's a challenge, not just within Rwanda, but in the region.
Am Johal 18:37
In terms of the work that you've been doing, I know you've been working also with a number of community groups here in Vancouver. But where do you see the work going in the future?
Lama Mugabo 18:50
Well, I was encouraged by the work we did at Hogan's Alley Society, looking at how the community embraced us, particularly young people. I remember in 2020, after George Floyd had been publicly lynched, and there was an uprising around the world, in Vancouver, young people set up a blockade on Hogan's Alley viaducts for two days and two nights. So to me, that speaks to the solidarity and I'm, and I'm very hopeful that going forward we'll bring all this energy together to really build what will be an amazing place, not only for black people, but for Vancouver, as a whole.
Am Johal 19:34
Yeah. Lama, is there anything you'd like to add?
Lama Mugabo 19:38
Well, we would like people to follow our work. My website is lamamugabo.com. Next year, we're planning to send 15 people on a reflection tour to Rwanda. Please contact us. Let us know if you're interested. But definitely we will look forward to engaging people more and more. Now that COVID-19 is on the way out—knock on wood.
Am Johal 20:08
Thank you so much for joining us on Below the Radar, Lama.
Lama Mugabo 20:12
My pleasure to be here and thank you and keep up the good work in our community.
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Gabriel Alegbeleye 20:20
Below the Radar is a knowledge democracy podcast created by SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement. Thanks for listening to our conversation with Lama Mugabo. To learn more about his work, head to the show notes below. You can follow us on social media @SFU_VOCE to keep up to date on new podcast releases. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch you next time on Below the Radar.
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