Below the Radar Transcript
Episode 70: Youth in Policymaking — with Aida Mwanzia
Speakers: Melissa Roach, Jackie Obungah, Aida Mwanzia
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Melissa Roach 0:05
Hello listeners. I'm Melissa Roach with Below the Radar, a knowledge democracy podcast. Below the Radar is created by SFU's Vancity Office of Community Engagement, and is recorded on the territories of the Musqueam, Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh peoples. On this episode of Below the Radar our guest host Jackie Obungah is joined by Aida Mwanzia. They discuss the importance of centering black youth and policy work and the significance of community centered policymaking. Aida speaks about her policy brief pushing for a cap on international student fees. She also shares about her experience working with Ethos Lab to create accessible and inclusive tech spaces. Thank you, we hope you enjoy.
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Jackie Obungah 0:49
Welcome, everyone to a new episode of Below the Radar. My guest today is Aida Mwanzia and Aida thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, Aida tell us a bit about yourself and what you've been up to these days.
Aida Mwanzia 1:01
Thank you so much for having me, Jackie. My name is Aida. I'm a facilitator and an educator who's really committed to supporting organizations, programs and initiatives that are committed to positive social change and decolonization. I'm really aware that I'm doing this work on unceded Coast Salish territories, specifically the lands of the Musqueam, the Squamish and the Tsleil-Waututh nations. And so I really tried to be involved in work that supports the liberation of Indigenous communities on these lands as well.
Jackie Obungah 1:31
That's great. Yeah, and Aida and I actually did meet a year ago, almost at the Level Youth program hosted by Vancouver Foundation. And it was an incredible program that had youth focus the work on policy and specific policy that was really community centered, and what they wanted to work on. So Aida, I wanted to have a bit of a conversation about the importance of youth in policy spaces, specifically, black and Indigenous youth who are rarely seen in these spaces, and how critical the work they do is really important, specifically in the setting of Vancouver.
Aida Mwanzia 2:04
Yeah, thank you so much for that question. It was wonderful that we met in that program and I think that there were a lot of lasting connections from that program. Right now, I'm working as a facilitator for that very same program. And the reason why I chose to take that on and why I joined that program last year as well in the first place, was because I think that in so many ways, both the Black community and Indigenous communities here, and also youth are really underrepresented when it comes to policy making. But there are so many policies that are made for us by other people who are really disconnected to our communities. And there's also that process of extraction, when people, you know, come and consult with us, but don't involve us in the decision making process, which is where I think we deserve to be. And so I'm really excited about the work that's going on there and specifically about the follow up afterwards as well.
Jackie Obungah 3:01
Yeah, that's absolutely true that you mentioned that because I remember my biggest worry, we had this first session of the program and one of the things we all talked about was how very few of us understood how the government works. And we didn't understand first of all, what the meaning of policy was, we just thought it was this long bureaucratic process, and how that inherent fear is fed into and us out of policy spaces. So one of the things that program did was break down the complexity of what policy is, and the process of getting policy work made. And just to let us know that, firstly, anything can be a policy issue to start with, and most things in general are. And yeah, how important it was from the transitioning of not knowing much in the beginning of the program, to writing policy briefs. Talk to me a bit about that process for you.
Aida Mwanzia 3:48
Yeah, that was a huge transformational process that took place, I believe it was over six to nine months. And for me, I remember that it was really, really interesting, because trying to focus on one, you know, one topic was really difficult. There are so many different areas that need improvement. But I was also relieved to see that there were so many other people like you, and other participants in the program, who are also doing the work in those other areas. And so that was reassuring. I think one of the most important parts of that process for me was meeting and seeing other people who were already involved in the policy space and doing really important work being represented in the faculty who were guiding and coaching us through the whole process. It made me realize that yes, it's possible, my voice does matter. And it's possible to make change in these spaces. And there are already people doing that work. And so that really gave me the confidence to be able to really advocate for that cap for international students in terms of tuition. It may have seemed like a small thing, but it was actually a pretty significant one, especially when we think about coming into this year and
Aida Mwanzia 4:59
A lot of international students not being able to come into Canada this year. So something interesting to think about.
Jackie Obungah 5:06
Yeah, that's quite interesting. Yeah, let's go a bit into your actual policy and how it centered international students, and how that being a community that you're closely connected to, and me as well, was really important for you to have that as the key part of your policy brief.
Aida Mwanzia 5:22
Absolutely, you know, my experience as an international student here was really complex, I would say, there were a lot of different iterations of anti-blackness that I experienced within the classroom setting. But then there was also the experience of feeling like I'm being milked for all the money my family has, and without really any kind of regulations in place to protect that process. And I think that, you know, when I was doing the research, I realized that back in 2005, people had called for a domestic cap on tuition so that domestic students would be protected. And you know, tuition would raise only 2-3% each year, because of that international students sometimes face increases of up to 50%, over three years, which is really significant and can make a big difference for accessibility. And so I thought that this was a space in which there was already precedent, this has been done for domestic students, why can't we do the same for international students?
Jackie Obungah 6:24
Mm hmm. Yeah, especially as we keep thinking about the importance of education, and the complex idea of why there's such a huge pipeline of international students leaving their home countries to come to us in countries for school, and even just dissecting the term international students, and how, in and of itself is way too broad, it doesn't really go into the complexity of who those individuals are at a very individual level, and what are their needs? What are their capacities? What are their statuses in the different levels of being international students, specifically, in Canada and BC in a setting where international students form such a big part of, you know, education revenue, here. Literally that term is so attached to revenue, in terms of education, of agency of any other part of who international students are, is taken away and almost lost in full meaning. My policy brief for this program focused on mental health and specifically mental health for international students and how it has to be tied into ways of knowing that are rooted in Indigenous ways of wellness and the Coast Salish territories we operate in. And exploring just how very little mental health services focused on the needs and meeting the needs of international students that are so unique in terms of how they move and migrate to, you know, acquire an education experience but beyond education, just like what it means to live here, and have, you know, start of life in a new place and start a new social capacity and learn what it's like to, you know, experience politics in Canada, for instance, for us is just also understanding how blackness looks like in a Western setting in a western Canadian setting in a place where we're now minority and be hyper visible and how that impacts your mental health and wellness. And yeah, one of those things we learned was language is really key in policy, and policy work. And language is something that's used as a tool of erasing folks and taking away so much from folks in terms of like the work that is done in policy, but like you mentioned, we had some really good faculty join us for that program and they were doing such tangible work in their communities. And one of the people I remember was sure Marquis, joining us, Ginger Gosnell-Myers. Joining us doing fancies was such a memorable session. Do you have any memorable sessions that you remember?
Aida Mwanzia 8:37
Oh, my gosh, there were so many incredible ones, I almost don't even know where to begin. But perhaps at the beginning, I think just the first session itself and being introduced to Michelle Nahanee and the game Decolonizing Practices was really game changing, because it made me think about wow, like we can have games in which we learn and we are participating in justice, but we're also having fun at the same time. So I really enjoyed that perspective on things. There was also a session with the board, the work arch, and he helped us discuss financial literacy and understanding budgets. And at the end of that session, I really felt a sense of ownership over the federal and provincial budgets and as if that was my own budget. And so I think that was a really transformative one as well.
Jackie Obungah 9:24
Yeah, I remember, the session with be believable cause I remember a lot of people were just wondering how we'll go about understanding such a big city budget and like municipal budgets, in general and that session really ties into what is actually happening now and how 'm understanding and seeing policy now especially with calls to do and very important calls to defend police and repatriate enough money to Indigenous communities, to communities that are marginalized and need it and actually, you know, defund parts of government work or institutional work that are not conducive to, you know, everyday life and give that to folks who really need it.
Jackie Obungah 10:01
And you understand how government funding and how government money is spent and how it works. And it's so frustrating because you think that people who work in policy work would tend to prioritize the needs of people, but they really don't. And that was a big point of learning for me in the level youth policy program.
Aida Mwanzia 10:19
Absolutely. Just looking at those budgets and being like, Oh, wow, this is what we spend our money on. Okay, that's good to know. It was definitely a game changer.
Jackie Obungah 10:28
Yeah. And yeah, let's move over a bit to Ethọ́s Lab, and how we also were a part of Ethọ́s Lab together at some point. And talk to me a bit about the work of what Ethọ́s Lab does, and how it specifically has the uniqueness of centering the black lived experience in its outlook of things.
Aida Mwanzia 10:46
Absolutely. So Ethọ́s Lab connects youth directly to the community and supports their personal growth and development. And what's really specific and special about Ethọ́s Lab is that it centers black youth in the creation of both physical and digital space. Now, these spaces are accessible to all youth. But, you know, we were really interested in the idea of what does it look like when we centre black youth in that process? And this could be an enriching learning experience for youth of other backgrounds as well, because they get to learn from more of an afrocentric lens, they might learn about tech and our contributions in general in the STEM fields, which is knowledge that is, unfortunately, really not centered in the curriculum here in BC, there have been recent calls to change the curriculum to include some more information about that. But that might take a while. And so hopefully, in the meantime, here at Ethọ́s Lab, young people are able to access that knowledge.
Jackie Obungah 11:45
Yeah, the work Ethọ́s Lab does, I remember, firstly, working with a group of other black youth was so revolutionary, because that hadn't happened for me, at all here in Vancouver, and being based in Surrey, where Surrey has such a huge population of black youth, and especially young black youth and high school age. And one of the things that I found to be so impactful about Ethọ́s Lab was centering black youth, as people with expertise to create and visualize their own spaces, their own needs, their own directions of how they want the, you know, physical space in digital space shaped, a lot of times black youth are really seen as folks with expertise in general in so many spaces, and that tends to have a lot of us marginalized from being able to access the spaces. And it also completely shifted and changed that. And I think it's really important for spaces to focus on the needs of youth from a very young age, because, like, you just generally have a very creative and impactful outlook on the spaces that we are part of, in general in the city. And I realize you think you had an event recently with HR sub, tell me how that went and what that was about. Yeah, we've been having a series of events this summer, you might be referring to the event that we had, that was about coding artificial intelligence. Yeah. And so that was our first in person event in this interesting pandemic time. And so, you know, we limited the capacity to 10, folks, and we had 10 young people between the ages of 12 to 18 come. And we partnered with an organization called quartic technology. And what they were able to do was guide the youth through a process of understanding, first of all, bias and artificial intelligence. So, you know, there are so many types of artificial intelligence, especially when it comes to visual recognition, they're not so great at recognizing black faces as compared to white faces, especially white male faces, because they have the data, and they've centered whiteness in building that technology. And so we started off with that promise of why it's so important for us to be in these spaces, and to be involved in the design process so that this technology can serve us as well. And then we went on and the young people, by the end of the session, were able to learn about how to essentially program a robot to be able to speak and say something, to move around how to program a light to turn on and off, and they had a lot of fun doing that. Well, that's really cool. Tech is so important in how we navigate the world as it is and how so many things are changing. Yeah. And to see specifically black you'd get opportunities to learn about tech, to see themselves in tech spaces, to see themselves as people who code and people who teach coding is just so important. And you know, it just goes into the idea of how important the work ethos is doing. So intentional, and so impactful in how we see ourselves and how we move along the spaces. And I know you do a lot as well of facilitation in general. And this edition is a key part in how you explore and continue to learn about decolonization and how you navigate being an immigrant black woman on unceded land. Tell me a bit about your passion for facilitation and how you focus intentionality in your work.
Aida Mwanzia 15:08
Yeah, thank you so much for the great question. Over the past five years, I've been slowly dipping my foot deeper and deeper into facilitation until this year, I kind of launched myself fully in and started my own facilitation business in practice. And that has been a really wonderful experience, because I was able to shift this work from something that I do on the side to something that I'm doing all the time. And what I've really wanted to centre this year is working with young adults, mostly between the ages of 18 to 30. In coming into their own power, I think that that's a really interesting time in everybody's life, specifically in the life of black Indigenous youth in this particular point in time, where there is the climate and the environment for us to be able to really make change. And there are so many programs that are going on that are providing the platform for young people to do that. And so for me, something that I really enjoy is process design, curriculum design, and holding space for, for young people to go through this evolution over either, you know, an eight week period or a six month period, nine months, I really enjoy working with cohorts for this reason, because there's an opportunity to build relationship.
Jackie Obungah 16:27
That's incredible, because you are back at level. And he also is a sovereign, how has it been transitioning with level from a participant in the program to now facilitator and how's that, like, change the view of the program for you?
Aida Mwanzia 16:43
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting to see the behind the scenes of what goes on in terms of curating and organizing a program like this, I think that it's been really wonderful to continue to see some faculty carry on from last year, and to welcome new folks as well. One of the most important parts has been also integrating the feedback that we received from participants last year into the design of this year. And so I see how each year can become better based on the input of the participants, and they're able to really shape the experience for those who come after them.
Jackie Obungah 17:18
Yeah, and how important it is, as well as, I think we would pay a new ring cohort of the program, but also just how important it is to guide young folks through the process of what it means to write a policy brief. Because it can be, you know, like the learning process is really funny now, but once you have to sit in with writing a policy brief part, it can get a bit overwhelming and intense. And how has it been, you know, just hosting the program virtually, and navigating facilitation to like a virtual space since we're living through a pandemic and changing time?
Aida Mwanzia 17:49
Absolutely, this has been such a lesson in adaptation. And just pivoting, you know, and we took a break in April to essentially transition everything online. And ever since May, we've been hosting the program online. And what that has meant is, you know, we really had to do a check, make sure that everyone has access to strong Wifi, laptops, but we also really needed to break up the program, because usually it was going over two full days in person. What we did was make it for half days, because it's really hard to sit in front of a computer for more than three to four hours at a time. Yes. And so there were some of those little adaptations that we've made. I think that on the one hand, it shifted group dynamics and actually bought out some of the quieter voices in the group, which was a really interesting observation. But at the same time, there's always that missing connection of being physically together. And so hopefully, for our last module this fall, we'll be able to connect in person.
Jackie Obungah 18:52
Oh, absolutely. That's a great point you bring out I think, I hadn't really imagined how shifting to a digital space would also call for re-examination of what access needs look like for different folks. And sitting in front of a computer for hours doesn't really work for lots of people. Strong WiFi connection is a huge privilege to have computers as well we just access to like a video camera. Also just the general feeling like your personal space that you know you call home that you came home to is now becoming like a place of work. Please have a multifaceted space and how just navigating what home means now. You know, I've been working from home and now it kind of feels like I have a very odd relationship just like I work from home. I'm also home and I rest at home. So it kind of starts to play all these roles. And home doesn't feel unsteady, like how we used to feel before but also just accepting the new changes that come with us living through this pandemic and the shifting adaptability needs of what it means to be human in these times.
Aida Mwanzia 19:55
Absolutely. I think we've all had to have some sense of, you know, being humble and also just being open that some people like you mentioned, even their home space, maybe they're sharing it with a lot of other people might be hard to get a quiet space or space with uninterrupted. So just letting folks have their video off if they need to step away if they need to take care of their needs has been really, really important to making space accessible.
Jackie Obungah 20:22
Absolutely, that's super important. And yeah, just moving over to one of the things I love talking to your body's language, and how language one such a big part of who we are, in general, and one of the fun things about it is that she is in the process of learning Swahili, and how intentional and how important it has been for you to navigate the journey of doing the work to learn a new language. But tell me a bit about the importance of why you chose to undertake this and how important it is for you to learn Swahili, maybe at some point, you know, use it as a main means of communication as you go through it.
Aida Mwanzia 20:59
Yes, you know, that process has been such a transformative process for me. And I really got inspired last year after being part of the policy program. And each time people were encouraged to make a land acknowledgement in their own language. That was the first time I'd heard people doing that. And so all of a sudden, we were hearing land acknowledgments in Mandarin and acknowledgments in Urdu and acknowledgments and so many beautiful languages. And the invitation to bring language and our full selves into the space was really powerful. And for me, I knew that growing up partially in Nairobi, partially in Gambia, I definitely was able to pick up like I'm able to understand Kiswahili, but I wanted to move that to the next level, and learn how to speak it. Because I wanted to be able to pass that on to my children one day as well, I realize that as an immigrant, sometimes, if we're not intentional about these things, that there can be a break in the sense of passing down that knowledge. And that's something that I really want to be intentional about in preserving the knowledge that exists in that language.
Jackie Obungah 22:10
Absolutely. And, you know, like you mentioned, we talk a lot and also do a lot of work that really focuses and is rooted in decolonization. And language is an important part of that process. And one of the things I usually am grateful for is, first of all, I think it's also just a privilege that I was able to grow up around spaces where, you know, he was beyond the spoken, and I was able to pick it up and it became a mode of communication. Moving here, being able to speak it has not just given me a sense of community, it has given me the capacity to understand that English as a language is very limiting for a lot of people, especially folks who speak two languages. And English isn't a native language. It's limiting and it doesn't allow for the full human experience to be embodied in how they speak and how they express themselves. And being able to find a community here that speaks Kiswahili or speaks the other different languages that are connected to like Lua. And Lua has been really important for me. And just also feeling like myself, you know, feeling like, okay, there's a part of me that has to say something and has to speak some part in Kiswahili for me to feel like my information has come across accurately in ways English cannot really hold that space. And I love the fact that you have taken up that intentional role of learning it and intending to use the language as well as a way of communication, and just a different outlook to but talk to me a bit about how decolonization plays a big role in the general what you do with facilitation, how you show up in spaces, and how the centrais decolonization specifically how solidarity between black Indigenous communities is so critical and so important?
Aida Mwanzia 23:55
Absolutely, I would say that decolonization in my work shows up in a few different ways. One of them is who I've chosen to prioritize in terms of the clients I take on. And so right now, my commitment is that at least two thirds of my work is centering like Indigenous or just bipoc. Youth, specifically, whereas beforehand, I would take on, you know, a mix. And I would say a third of mine is still like, I will take on other clients as well. But I'm slowly moving in that progression of being able to really dedicate my energy and time to the learning, growth and development of BIPOC young people. And I think that that is something that when we explicitly say, you know, I'm going to dedicate my energy towards this group. It really enables me to be able to focus my gifts and talents and channel them there. I think another thing that's really important for me is in the way that I facilitate and So originally, a lot of my facilitation had been You know, I've been trained by institutions here that I wouldn't say are completely aligned with my values. And then last fall, I was able to attend the emergent strategy, ideation Institute training specifically for bipoc young people who are wanting to facilitate, and that was really game changing. For me, some of the main takeaways I took from that into my practice has been facilitating with an abundance of time, a lot of the time in Vancouver, particularly, I feel like there's this sense of, we have to make the most, you know, tight schedules that really don't allow people to do any form of storytelling, where people don't really have a chance to feel heard. And there just doesn't seem to be enough actual time for connection and community building. And so I start there, I start with, like, how do we make a flexible and abundant schedule that allows for young people to connect and express themselves authentically, which is a bit difficult in a virtual space, but absolutely doable. And then also allowing for different ways of being and showing up. So you know, this world tends to really prioritize people who are neurotypical people who can express themselves verbally really well. And I really tried to incorporate movement, imagery art into the work that I do, because that's supporting different ways of showing up in this space, that makes it accessible for a lot more people to be able to access it. And so because of that, I tend to find that people who weren't normally comfortable in some of these platforms are able to feel that way afterwards.
Jackie Obungah 26:36
That's absolutely important to know. And you do have a consulting agency that you're in the process of building, as well talk a bit about it, and how you want to be reached with services that you do. And just a bit about generally, the work that the consulting agency aims to achieve.
Aida Mwanzia 26:55
Yeah, thank you so much for highlighting it. So essentially, what I have is a sole proprietorship right now, I've already registered that how people can get in touch with me is usually by email. That's the best way, one Zia, that ita@gmail.com can also find me on LinkedIn. And I'm currently in the process of building my website, which I'll be able to share the link with Jackie shortly as well, you can include that in the description. So that work is primarily right now focused on providing insights in input into program development. And also, people can contract me for facilitation specifically. And so if people want to host meetings if they want to host a specific process within their organization, these are some things that I can facilitate, but specifically programs that are centering young people on social change. That's an area in which I'm really interested in right now. And that's something that I'm really happy to come in as an educational consultant just to provide insight on that.
Jackie Obungah 27:59
That's great. Yeah, and thank you so much Aida for joining me today on Below the Radar. It's been so great to have you. I'm looking forward to when this episode comes out so folks can listen to all the great insights you have to offer today.
Aida Mwanzia 28:13
Thank you so much for having me Jackie.
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Melissa Roach 28:22
Thanks again for joining us on Below the Radar. Stay in the loop by following us on Facebook at Below the Radar pod and on Twitter at BTR underscore pod. And be sure to subscribe wherever you find your podcasts. We hope you'll join us next week for another new episode of Below the Radar.
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