Re: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable

[Richard Vaughan <vaughan@sfu.ca>]

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 2:26 PM Martin Hahn <martin_hahn@sfu.ca> wrote:
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> That line: " you protect yourself by getting vaccinated" drives me bats!  It shows such a profound misunderstanding of what vaccines are for in an epidemic.
> But BC universities? Well, they are currently behind in their understanding, and more afraid of public backlash, not just than US universities and European governments.  We have now fallen behind poultry processors in Arkansas!
> Embarrassing.

SFU's top-level web COVID page, prominently linked from our home page, says:

"CURRENT GUIDELINES
Getting vaccinated is easy, safe and a critical part of protecting
others, including our campus communities. Get Vaccinated. [link to BC
govt. page on how to get the vaccine]"
(https://www.sfu.ca/returntocampus.html)

Richard/


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> Martin
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> On 8/4/2021 12:51 PM, Lyn Bartram wrote:
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> I asked a question in senate about the weakness of the plan, and the answer was “ you protect yourself by getting vaccinated”. But of course this is not the only answer - you protect others by getting vaccinated. I agree with universal masking. It may be the only achievable solution - except for residences. And a number of schools are already mandating it. It’s the least e should do.
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> Sent from my iPad
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> On Aug 4, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Cynthia Patton <cindy_patton@sfu.ca> wrote:
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> Can I offer the simplicity of universal masking? The US CDC and others are back on that plate for medium term solutions.
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> Yes, something to work around in the context of lecturing, etc. but a few "Madonna" microphones (a mere $70 at your local London Drugs) could go some distance to mitigating the muffling. Masking would also provide a substantial degree of safety in small group activities.
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> Even with the small "break through" rate of fully vaccinate people, our students' age cohort are at very high risk because they tend not to realize they are sick unless they're very sick, and then they afraid to affect their grades by taking a day at home. Also given the relatively high number of our students who have their own (unvaccinated, off at day care) kiddies, I am really, really nervous about the kid-young adult vectors putting (grannie-aged) me in harms way.
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> I, too, wish I had confidence in our ventilation systems. But given that Dr. Bonnie and Health Canada denied that coronaviruses are airborne for a very very long time, all of our Universities are way behind any possibility of mitigating that aspect of the problem.
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> In long, we're far from out of the woods.
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> ________________________________
> From: Bernhard Riecke <ber1@sfu.ca>
> Sent: August 4, 2021 8:22:13 AM
> To: Sam Black; Behraad Bahreyni; Lyn Bartram; Baharak Yousefi
> Cc: Christopher Pavsek; academic-discussion@sfu.ca
> Subject: Re: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable
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> An  increasing amount of universities in Canada and beyond are requiring vaccinations (at least when living in dorms), e.g., https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/universities-grappling-with-whether-to-require-mandatory-vaccines-for-students & https://www.fierceeducation.com/best-practices/many-universities-requiring-students-to-get-vaccinated
> so it can't be completely impossible. It's indeed a tricky balance between "personal freedom" and "safety", but certainly worth pushing for a safe work environment (I'm already thinking of bringing my own HEPA air purifier to lectures to protect students and myself... something that imho SFU should more seriously consider providing)
> cheers
> Bernhard
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> On 2021-08-03 15:24, Sam Black wrote:
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> I too was puzzled by the response Chris received,
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> "there is no requirement for proof of immunization under the University Act, making it impossible for the university to establish such a mandate"
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> For the record, there is a requirement for proof of immunization -- but not for covid immunization -- for incoming students in many Canadian Medical schools, including UBC and the University of Ottawa:
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> http://www.calendar.ubc.ca/vancouver/index.cfm?tree=12,209,374,340
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> https://med.uottawa.ca/undergraduate/immunization-requirements
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> The University Act neither requires, nor prohibits schools from demanding proof of immunization. Under the University Act it is permitted for schools to demand proof of immunization: as UBC's Medical School has done. So I believe that the question of whether SFU should demand proof of immunization for covid should be debated on its merits by the SFU community. I very much doubt that debate is pre-empted by the jurisdictional argument Chris was given.
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> Best,
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> Sam
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> Sam Black
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> Assoc. Prof. Philosophy, SFU
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> I respectfully acknowledge that SFU is on the unceded ancestral and traditional territories of the səl̓ilw̓ətaʔɬ (Tsleil-Waututh), Sḵwx̱wú7mesh Úxwumixw (Squamish), xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam) and kʷikʷəƛ̓əm (Kwikwetlem) Nations.
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> ________________________________
> From: Behraad Bahreyni <bba19@sfu.ca>
> Sent: August 3, 2021 2:27:59 PM
> To: Lyn Bartram; Baharak Yousefi
> Cc: Christopher Pavsek; academic-discussion@sfu.ca
> Subject: RE: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable
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> Here is another article on the same subject:
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> Canada’s universities and colleges are failing science - Macleans.ca
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> __________________
>
> Behraad Bahreyni, PhD, PEng
> Associate Professor, School of Mechatronic Systems Engineering
> Associate Member, School of Engineering Science
>   SFU  Simon Fraser University
>
>
> Tel:  +1 (778) 782-8694
> Fax:  +1 (778) 782-7514
> Web:   http://sense.fas.sfu.ca/
>
> Surrey campus:    MSE 4176, 250-13450 102nd Ave, Surrey, BC, CANADA   V3T 0A3
> Burnaby campus:   ASB 8855, 8888 University Dr, Burnaby, BC, CANADA   V5A 1S6
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> From: Lyn Bartram <lyn@sfu.ca>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 3, 2021 2:20 PM
> To: Baharak Yousefi <byousefi@sfu.ca>
> Cc: Christopher Pavsek <cpavsek@sfu.ca>; academic-discussion@sfu.ca
> Subject: Re: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable
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> I think there is a lot of bafflegab here. We know other Canadian universities are requiring more stringent ,measures.  And I foresee a lawsuit where someone pits the safe   workplace requirement against being made to go back to campus.
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> Sent from my iPad
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> On Aug 3, 2021, at 2:14 PM, Baharak Yousefi <byousefi@sfu.ca> wrote:
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> Hi Chris,
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> Thanks very much for following up on this and sharing the information with us.
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> What the Covid-19 Response Team at SFU is saying re the impossibility of a mandate seems to contradict what Dr. Henry said on July 27th:
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> “ . . . And universities are looking at what are the measures they need to take in their setting to make it as safe as possible . . . that may mean if you’re living in residence that you need to have proof of immunization.”
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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It1afVleAqA
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> Part about post sec is at about 42:12 to 43:12.
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> Thanks again,
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> Baharak
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> _____________
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> Baharak Yousefi (she/her)
> Librarian for History, International Studies, Graduate Liberal Studies, & Political Science
>
> Belzberg Library | Simon Fraser University | 515 West Hastings Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6B 1G4
>
> Occupied Xʷməθkwəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) & Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Territories | #LandBack
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> ________________________________
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> From: Christopher Pavsek <cpavsek@sfu.ca>
> Sent: August 3, 2021 1:54 PM
> To: Baharak Yousefi
> Cc: academic-discussion@sfu.ca
> Subject: Re: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable
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> Hello--I was curious about this and queried the president's office/VPA. I specifically asked if the University or the Province had made the decision to forego a vaccine mandate.
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> I got a response from the Covid-19 Response Team at SFU.
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> This is what they said:
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> "Regarding mandatory vaccinations, there is no requirement for proof of immunization under the University Act, making it impossible for the university to establish such a mandate, which would also be difficult to enforce. There are no universities in British Columbia currently requiring proof of immunization. All post-secondary institutions continue to monitor the advice of the province and will take the Provincial Health Officer’s direction on this."
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> My reading of this is that the university could mandate more than the province is recommending--masks, or distancing, or other measures perhaps?--but not vaccines.
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> I thought this might clarify things a bit.
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> Chris
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> On Jul 29, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Baharak Yousefi <byousefi@sfu.ca> wrote:
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> Hi Chris,
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> My understanding is that yesterday Dr. Henry said it is up to each university/college to set their standards above and beyond provincial health orders.
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> I didn't hear this myself, but here's the link to Liza Yuzda's reporting.
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> Best,
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> Baharak
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> _________________
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> Baharak Yousefi (she/her)
> Librarian for History, International Studies, Graduate Liberal Studies, & Political Science
>
> Belzberg Library | Simon Fraser University | 515 West Hastings Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6B 1G4
>
> Occupied Xʷməθkwəy̓əm (Musqueam), Skwxwú7mesh (Squamish) & Səl̓ílwətaɬ (Tsleil-Waututh) Territories | #LandBack
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> ________________________________
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> From: Christopher Pavsek <cpavsek@sfu.ca>
> Sent: July 29, 2021 11:11 AM
> To: academic-discussion@sfu.ca
> Subject: Re: on another point: : Without mandatory vaccines, more campus shutdowns are inevitable
>
>
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> Regarding frustration with the university's lack of a vaccine requirement: my understanding, which might be incorrect, is that SFU must follow provincial direction on any vaccine mandate. That direction comes from the Ministry of Health and the Min. of Adv. Education, or whatever it's called these days.
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> Correct me if I'm wrong.
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> So if faculty and staff want to pressure the university to implement a vaccine requirement, pressure would have to be applied to the university and to the relevant levels of government.
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> Such requirements are common in the US.
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> Best
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> Chris
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> On Jul 29, 2021, at 10:46 AM, Lyn Bartram <lyn@sfu.ca> wrote:
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> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-without-mandatory-covid-19-vaccination-on-campus-we-will-face-another/
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> Dr. Lyn Bartram
> Professor, School of Interactive Arts and Technology
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> Director, Vancouver Institute of Visual Analytics
>
> Simon Fraser University | SRYC
> 250 – 13450 102nd Avenue, Surrey, B.C. V3T 0A3
> v 778 782 7439  f 778 782 9422  m 604 908 9954
>
> http://www.sfu.uca/~lyn | Skype: drlynb
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> <OutlookEmoji-15753042296078dab3b27-0b5a-41a0-b6d6-ebe6e14c0dc9.png>
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> **************************************
> Christopher Pavsek, Ph.D., MRM-Planning
> Associate Professor of Film
> Simon Fraser University
> 149 West Hastings Street
> Vancouver, BC V6B 1H4
> Canada
> cpavsek@sfu.ca
>
> I respectfully acknowledge that I work on the unceded traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations.
>
>
>
> **************************************
> Christopher Pavsek, Ph.D., MRM-Planning
> Associate Professor of Film
> Simon Fraser University
> 149 West Hastings Street
> Vancouver, BC V6B 1H4
> Canada
> cpavsek@sfu.ca
>
> I respectfully acknowledge that I work on the unceded traditional territories of the Coast Salish peoples of the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Bernhard Riecke, PhD
> Professor | School of Interactive Arts & Technology (SIAT)
> Director of iSpace Lab | TEDxSFU license holder & speaker coach
> My TEDx talk: "Could Virtual Reality make us more human?"
> Simon Fraser University Surrey | 250 - 13450 102 Avenue, Surrey, BC V3T 0A3, Canada
> Office: 2822 (Podium 2) | iSpaceLab.com/Riecke | SIAT homepage
> E-mail: ber1@sfu.ca | skype: thebernie



-- 
Richard Vaughan
Autonomy Lab / Computing Science / Simon Fraser University